Would this be a re-rack ?

[gav_sw20]

Debating this last night over a game and a pint so I will try to explain.

Blue, Pink and Black left on the table.

White is in the jaws of the corner pocket and surrounded by the Pink and Black meaning there is no physical way of getting through them to the Blue.

I dont ever recall this happening in a match and not sure what the outcome would be, I personally think it would be a re-rack a you cant play the blue because you cant get past the 2 other balls, without playing a deliberate foul which you cant do.

Thoughts please ?

[warren132]

I doubt very much if this situation would be a re-rack..not with all the reds being potted and the frame nearly over...depending on the points each player had at the time then i think it would be called a foul and a miss until the other player needed a snooker and then a miss could not be called..maybe a free ball would be left at this point and this would help the other player...hope this helps.

[astle_the_king]

wouldnt be a rerack ,you would just agree with ref that it was impossible to hit blue without fouling the pink or black and agree what shot to play hitting either pink or black first,the ref would call foul shot but not a miss.

[FOXMULDER]

An imposible situation would be at the discretion of the referee.

If the snooker had been played on purpose, then the ref may allow the player to play a foul but not call a miss, so the frame could continue.

If the snooker happened by chance, the ref may move the pink or black onto their own spot to make the shot playable.

The player could of course simply pot the white, which would be another way of keeping the frame going.

It wouldn't be a re-rack though, not at that stage of the frame.

[dantuck_7]

There is something in the rules whereby you accept it is an impossible situation, but you have to play the escape without enough pace to reach the blue had the pink and black not been there. Sounds sensible that a miss can't be called.

[ref300]

This is called the impossible shot.
A miss cannot be called BUT the Striker must play the cueball with sufficient strength & direction to reach the blue had he not been snookered.
The only time a re-rack occurs is when in the opinion of the referee a stalemate has occurred.

I cannot remember when OR who but a few years back in a ranking event a frame was reracked with (I think) only blue-pink-black on the table.

[FOXMULDER]

This is called the impossible shot.
A miss cannot be called BUT the Striker must play the cueball with sufficient strength & direction to reach the blue had he not been snookered.
The only time a re-rack occurs is when in the opinion of the referee a stalemate has occurred.

I cannot remember when OR who but a few years back in a ranking event a frame was reracked with (I think) only blue-pink-black on the table.

How is it possible for a stalemate to occur with only three balls left on the table?

[ref300]

How is it possible for a stalemate to occur with only three balls left on the table?

Cannot remember the exact details but I think it had something to do with one or more of the balls hanging near a corner pocket.

Quite sure that somebody with a better memory will remember

[FOXMULDER]

Cannot remember the exact details but I think it had something to do with one or more of the balls hanging near a corner pocket.

Quite sure that somebody with a better memory will remember

Maybe the pink and black were hanging over the pocket and the blue was almost touching them, with both players playing soft nursery cannons on the blue going nowhere causing the stalemate...

That would be one possibility

[ref300]

The answer on this was in the obvious place - TSF - The Statman posted the following

The frame that had been in progress the longest when a stalemate situation arose and the frame was reset (or ‘re racked’) was the eighth frame of the 1981 final between Steve Davis and Doug Mountjoy. Davis led 49–48 and only the blue, pink and black remained. Following 31 shots that failed to resolve the situation of the black on the edge of the pocket with the blue alongside, referee John Williams gave the players a further three shots each to resolve the situation. No resolution ensued, and the frame was reset after 41 minutes’ play.

[T.C.]

If the snooker happened by chance, the ref may move the pink or black onto their own spot to make the shot playable.

?? This would never happen.

[T.C.]

The player could of course simply pot the white, which would be another way of keeping the frame going.

This is no longer allowed.

[Mr P]

That is a very difficult predicament to be in, I guess one of the players would just have to make a foul shot for the game to continue normally.

[T.C.]

a deliberate foul would have to occur but the player would have to play with sufficient strength and direction of the blue. If he does not, it may be considered ungentlemanly conduct and he risks losing the frame.

[DawRef]

This is covered in Section 3 Rule 14 opening paragraph:
"The striker shall, to the best of his ability, endeavour to hit the ball on. If the referee considers the Rule infringed, he shall call FOUL AND A MISS unless only the black remains on the table, or a situation exists where it is impossible to hit the ball on. In the latter case it must be assumed the striker is attempting to hit the ball on provided that he plays, directly or indirectly, in the direction of the ball on with sufficient strength, in the referee's opinion, to have reached the ball on but for the obstructing ball or balls.'
In your example, if the player just potted the white, the referee would be quite right to call FOUL AND A MISS, as the player made no attempt to hit the ball on. Also, there is nowhere in the rules, or, as far as I am aware, never has been, the two balls not on being re-spotted so that the player can hit the ball on!!
In this instance, the player must hit the cue-ball with enough strength to hit the blue, as if the pink and black weren't there. All the referee will call, is 'FOUL' and either 6 or 7 points, depending which ball was hit. No 'MISS' will be called.