What would happen in this situation...

[PatBlock]

I suppose it may also depend on whether or not there are other reds on the table, besides the pair touching the white.

In my original scenario, there were. (I know, I should have said so)

[Souwester]

In that case, a rerack will sort out all problems.

Indeed it would.

[PatBlock]

In that case, a rerack will sort out all problems.

Not if I'm 50 ahead it won't!

[flame]

You don't need to play through them, you could simply touch the cue ball, if, by playing through them, you;re likely to leave your opponent with an easy pot. That's why I mentioned earlier, that it may well be the makings of a stalemate situation.

i disagree, just touching the white would surely be a foul and a miss,

[flame]

i disagree, just touching the white would surely be a foul and a miss,

please don't misunderstand me,i am not being argumentative,just having a discussion.

[Souwester]

i disagree, just touching the white would surely be a foul and a miss,

I have no problem in discussing the rules. Unlike certain other (non snooker) forums I participate in, these discussions on TSF are usually quite civilised.

However, a Foul and a Miss is called only when the cue-ball fails to first make contact with a ball on. Therefore, if you start off by touching a ball that *IS* on, then a F&M can't possibly be called.

20. Miss
A miss is when the cue-ball fails to first contact a ball on and the referee considers that the striker has not made a good enough attempt to hit a ball on.

Note that this is from section 2 Definitions, rather than than s3.14 which deals with a Foul and a Miss, which explains in more detail what happens when the referee considers the rule infringed, the rule starting off...

14. Foul and a Miss
The striker shall, to the best of his ability, endeavour to hit the ball on.


As I said, though, since you've started off with a touching ball, then you've made contact with a ball on, so this rule can't be applied. Not playing away from a touching ball amounts to playing a push stroke and that is the rule that would be applied to the foul.

[Robinyorks]

What would you say about, instead of simply touching the cue ball, you were to fire it into the cushion rubber, which will obviously split up the problem pack? It's not a miss (as discussed), not a push shot, nor is it a case of the object ball being moved by the striker. I would say not a foul at all.

[DawRef]

What would you say about, instead of simply touching the cue ball, you were to fire it into the cushion rubber, which will obviously split up the problem pack? It's not a miss (as discussed), not a push shot, nor is it a case of the object ball being moved by the striker. I would say not a foul at all.

Looking at the picture, I would suggest that it would still be a foul, as the cue-ball would bounce off of the cushion and hit the cue. I doubt you would be able to play the stroke AND get the cue out of the way in time.

[Robinyorks]

Looking at the picture, I would suggest that it would still be a foul, as the cue-ball would bounce off of the cushion and hit the cue. I doubt you would be able to play the stroke AND get the cue out of the way in time.

I wouldn't think it impossible though. A gentle tap at 12 o'clock which slides off the top of the cue ball would do it.

[flame]

the logical)obvious when thought out properly ) answer that i have concluded,is in agreement with souwester,it is a push shot,but i wonder how many refs would struggle with the situation,also what would a player think facing the shot,a very tricky situation indeed.

[Souwester]

the logical)obvious when thought out properly ) answer that i have concluded,is in agreement with souwester,

I thank you.

The referee has to make a snap decision, and it would probably be an automatic reaction to call 'Foul' but it might take a little thinking about as to what rule has been infringed, if questioned!

[DawRef]

to what rule has been infringed

Push stroke?

What if the player came to the table, very carefully placed the tip of his cue on the cue-ball and then lifted it straight back off again, without disturbing any ball(s). Would that be classed as a stroke and therefore, not commit a foul?

[APK]

A push stroke is when the tip of the cue is in contact with the cue ball when either
a) it has commenced its forward motion (literally pushing it) or
b) when the cue ball is in contact with an object ball.
Unless if touching or nearly touching, playing a fine edge will not be considered a push stroke.

So, since the cue ball and at least one object ball are in contact and there is no other direction to play in, it must be a push stroke.

As for DawRefs suggestion, any player attempting that is asking to be called foul (maybe the shot as well ).