Touched but no movement

[poolqjunkie]

It was a black ball game in the deciding frame.
Player A shot at the black. Player B was in his chair and did not see the black move at all.
He got up, ready to shake hands with player A, when player A said he had made a legal strike.
Player B said, "the black did not move at all..."
Player A said, "yes, I know. It was a very fine cut--was so fine that the cue ball barely touched the black but not enough to move it. It did nevertheless make contact so it is not a foul."
What do you think?
Has it ever happen to you?

[jamesa54321]

No foul, player b's shot!

[The Statman]

If contact was made, it is no foul. Otherwise player B would claim a foul if the white had landed touching the black, which would obviously be stupid.

[poolqjunkie]

I see.
Player B honestly did not see the ball moved (which player A agreed) and did not see any contact being made. But since player B was sitting in his chair and did not see the shot up close I guess the right thing to do is just to give player A the benefit of doubt and believe him, is that right?

[Souwester]

I have seen many shots where, unless you are looking VERY closely, the balls appear not to have touched. Where there is no official referee I think you have to go with the honesty of the player best placed to see what happened. In this case, since player B was sitting down, he must respect the call of his opponent.

[renniwevarb]

Well it's all about integrity ya... I've seen quite a few of these "thin contact" situations too. Seriously we have to trust each other to be honest since there is no referee. Some times even the striker himself can find it hard to call, since the ball movement can be so minute.

[Bigmeek]

I have seen many shots where, unless you are looking VERY closely, the balls appear not to have touched. Where there is no official referee I think you have to go with the honesty of the player best placed to see what happened. In this case, since player B was sitting down, he must respect the call of his opponent.

souwester Spot on reply. Thin contacts happen a lot. Whats player B doing sitting on his jacksy when its a black ball game! He should be watching.

[poolqjunkie]

Thank you for all your reply. Yes, I agree.
It happened in a friendly game and after the game was over, player B asked me if he could tell player A it was a foul because he clearly believed that the black ball did not move.
I was not sure I thought if the cue ball had touched the black then it was legal, even if it did not appear to have moved.
He asked if there is any rule saying that if a ball did not move then it was not considered being striked. Although I did not think so but thought I should ask here just to make sure.
Thank you.

[Souwester]

The rules refer to hitting and striking object balls. Although the rules don't specifically say so, this simply means 'make contact with', so just rolling up to a ball with sufficient strength that it comes to rest just touching the object ball is a valid shot. It is not necessary for the object ball to move, providing the cue ball makes contact with it.

[Terry Davidson]

pqj:

I have seen a case on TV where a roll-up was played on the black and the referee didn't see the black move and called a foul. The striker then drew his attention to the fact the cueball was actually touching the black (frozen ball) and the referee had to cancel the foul call.

The black ball did not move at all and that is how tricky it can be.

I've also seen long thin safety shots where it is very hard to see the object ball move, although not as frequently as the cueball is normally moving at pace

Terry

[dantuck_7]

Yep I've seen it before where a very thin cut will rock a ball maybe 1mm, luckily its never occured on a black-ball game!

[davipp]

I play out of full table length snookers and because I intend to just roll up to the ball on I will ask the marker to stand down near the intended ball on, just in case I do only graze it and hardly move it. If you watch billiards and top of the table is being played the referee will stand virtually over the balls in case of the slightest graze of a cannon is made. Because player B was sitting down he has to give Player A the benefit of the doubt and accept the fact he did contact the black.