Free ball or not?.

[57varieties]

With only the colours on, your opponent fouls but leaves the cue ball close to the 'ball on' without touching it. The 'ball on' cannot be struck on either side because of its close proximity. Is this a free ball situation?.

[The Statman]

With only the colours on, your opponent fouls but leaves the cue ball close to the 'ball on' without touching it. The 'ball on' cannot be struck on either side because of its close proximity. Is this a free ball situation?.

No. You are not snookered.

The Rules state that you have to be able to hit the finest possible edge on both sides - which you can. These finest edges are in almost completely opposite directions, whereas we tend to think of playing a few feet up the table either side of the object ball.

But you can hit both finest edges, even if the cue-ball is only 1mm away.

[Souwester]

It is a popular misconception amongst players that you must be able to hit the two extreme edges that are a full ball's width apart, but this is not the case.

Think back to elementary maths, and tangents. No matter how far apart the balls are, if you draw the tangent from the left side of the cue ball to the right side of the object ball, and from the right side of the cue ball to the left side of the object ball, this shows you the finest edges that must be struck.

You will see that in no case the tangent hits the full ball's width, and that the closer the balls are together the less of the object ball will be hit.

As to whether there is a free ball, you need to be able to hit that finest edge of the object ball before making contact with a ball not on. As long as you can play to both the left and right without hitting a ball not on there is no free ball.

[57varieties]

Thanks to both of you. Yes I was under the misconception about the extreme edges and the explantion clears that up.

[Kyra]

If I may add something:
You're beeing awarded a freeball if, after a foul, the cue ball is snookered. Now have a look at the definition what "snookered" means. Very simply said: The path to the ball on has to be obstructed by a ball not on. In your case there is no ball not on. So no snooker and no freeball

[DandyA]

If I may add something:
You're beeing awarded a freeball if, after a foul, the cue ball is snookered. Now have a look at the definition what "snookered" means. Very simply said: The path to the ball on has to be obstructed by a ball not on. In your case there is no ball not on. So no snooker and no freeball

similarly, I think, you can't be snookered by a cushion - if the white is in the jaws of a pocket, it's not a snooker cos there is no snookering ball ...

if you are both "angled" in the jaws of a pocket and there is (further away) a snookering ball, is that a snooker or not? I'd guess not as I think the nearest think (ie the jaws) takes precedence but I'm not sure ...

[Souwester]

16. Snookered
The cue-ball is said to be snookered when a direct stroke in a straight line to every ball on is wholly or partially obstructed by a ball or balls not on. If one or more balls on can be struck at both extreme edges free of obstruction by any ball not on, the cue-ball is not snookered.

(a) If in-hand, the cue-ball is snookered if it is obstructed as described above from all possible positions on or within the lines of the "D".

(b) If the cue-ball is so obstructed from hitting a ball on by more than one ball not on
(i) the ball nearest to the cue-ball is considered to be the effective snookering ball, and
(ii) should more than one obstructing ball be equidistant from the cue-ball, all such balls will be considered to be effective snookering balls.

(c) When Red is the ball on, if the cue-ball is obstructed from hitting different Reds by different balls not on, there is no effective snookering ball.

(d) The striker is said to be snookered when the cue-ball is snookered as above

(e) The cue-ball cannot be snookered by a cushion. If the curved face of a cushion obstructs the cue-ball and is closer to the cue-ball than any obstructing ball not on, the cue-ball is not snookered.

[Bigmeek]

Souwester Sorry to be a pain but I'm one of those folks that always believed you had to be able to hit the extreme edges and hence I've seen on the telly the ref use another ball to get a measure. Could you just clarify a bit as geometry is not my best subject!!
Would I be more or less correct to assume that the "extreme edges" rule would apply when the object ball and cue ball were far apart, say two feet?

[Krypton]

This is NOT a free ball, after a foul, because both extreme edges of the red can be hit with the cue ball, playing in direction A or B.

Your "fault", no offense intended, is: the 'extreme edges' VARY depending on the cue ball distance, but they are NEVER on the 'opposite' side of the object ball (they're NOT on the same geometrical diameter). In fact, they are closer to the side the cue ball is lying.

This helps?

[Souwester]

Ok, let me try and explain this in a different way.

The blue ball is on it's spot. You are probably thinking that the extreme edge is the left or right hand edge that lies on the line drawn through the blue from the centre of one middle pocket to the other - ie at 90º to the centre line of the table (ie the line on which the brown, blue, pink and black spots lie).

Now, no matter where you put the cue ball on the centre line of the table you'll never be able to hit the point on the blue that lies on the line that dissects it between the middle pockets.

If the brown was on its spot, then if the cue ball was placed to the left or right of it, and touching it, on the baulk line, only then would you be able to hit the point that is half a ball's width to the left or right.

If the cue ball is on the centre line of the table, then the greater the distance between the cue ball and blue, the nearer to that far left or far right edge you can hit. As you move the two balls closer, the 'extreme' edge will move around the blue towards the cue ball.

As I said in my earlier post, for a free ball to exist, the path from the cue ball to the finest edges (a much better description than extreme edge) of the ball on must not be impeded by a ball not on. This means that you simply need to be able to play to the finest edge on the left or the finest edge on the right of a straight line between cue ball and ball on.

Try working it out with some coins on you desk at home, it might make it clearer. I've probably made it clear as mud with all the above!

[Souwester]

My response took so long to compose, that you've come up with something far simpler krypton!

[The Statman]

I have written a couple of articles on the free ball, which hopefully might be worth looking at:

There is this one How to judge whether you have one

And this one What you can and can't do with it

There are a couple of diagrams which might help, particularly Diagram 3 in the first of these links. But they should be read/viewed in order of the paragraphs to make full sense!

[nrage]

...

The blue ball is on it's spot. ...

If the cue ball is on the centre line of the table, then the greater the distance between the cue ball and blue, the nearer to that far left or far right edge you can hit. As you move the two balls closer, the 'extreme' edge will move around the blue towards the cue ball.

.. interesting, if you carry this thought on you can imagine/see the extreme edges on both sides, equal distance from the centre of the blue getting closer and closer as the cue ball gets closer and closer until the cue and the extreme edges finally meet in the centre of the blue.

Cool.

[Souwester]

Statman, those two links are both to the same thing!

[The Statman]

Statman, those two links are both to the same thing!

Quite so! Now corrected.

The vagaries of Cut & Paste used in conjunction with an absent brain!