Foul Question

[damienlch]

hi... i got a foul question and hope someone can clear the air...

let's say the ball on is a red... my opponent missed potting the red and cue ball went in off... i put the cue ball in the D but missed hitting the red completely, it's a foul and a miss... my opponent chose to have the cue ball replaced...

question... do i still have the option to place the cue ball anywhere within the D? or does it have to be replaced in its previous position?

[Souwester]

i got a foul question

It wasn't that bad a question ;-)

Strangely, although if the balls are replaced after a foul and a miss the player has all the same options he had before, the cue ball is also replaced to where it was played from in the D: he is no longer in hand.

[damienlch]

It wasn't that bad a question ;-)

Strangely, although if the balls are replaced after a foul and a miss the player has all the same options he had before, the cue ball is also replaced to where it was played from in the D: he is no longer in hand.

thanks for the clarification, souwester... i thought so too but i've got a mate who kept insisting that the cue ball is still in hand...

[DawRef]

If he had missed the red and gone in off, THEN the next player would have been in hand.

[Krypton]

If he had missed the red and gone in off, THEN the next player would have been in hand.

If he decided to play, yes. BUT, as the red was missed and a miss has been called:
If the next player decides to have the balls replaced, he's not in hand, no matter whether the cue ball has gone in off or not.


Note: the cue ball is in hand until it's brought into play by a shot (hitting it with the tip of the cue, even a miss-cue) - that's one of the possibilities ENDING the "in hand state" of the cue ball*. Therefore, should the shot be a miss, there is NO WAY you can be "in hand" again.

step A) you're in hand, chose a place within the D form where play goes on.
step B) miss the object ball - opponent choses to replace - play the shot again from where the cue ball was BEFORE B, so ONE step back, not two.


*there are more. I. e., fouling with the cue ball on the bed of the table ENDS in hand as well...

[vendetta_revived]

*there are more. I. e., fouling with the cue ball on the bed of the table ENDS in hand as well...

I'm sorry but can you please elaborate on that part because I didn't quite get it. Thanks a lot.

[DawRef]

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Originally Posted by Krypton
*there are more. I. e., fouling with the cue ball on the bed of the table ENDS in hand as well...

I'm sorry but can you please elaborate on that part because I didn't quite get it. Thanks a lot.

If you place the cue-ball on the bed of the table and commit a foul BEFORE a stroke is made, then the next player plays from where the cue-ball is. It is NOT in hand. However, if the player commits a foul BEFORE the cue-ball is placed on the table, then the next player plays from in hand.

[Souwester]

It might help to quote the actual wording of the 'In Hand' rule:

9. In-hand
(a) The cue-ball is in-hand
(i) before the start of each frame,
(ii) when it has entered a pocket, or
(iii) when it has been forced off the table.

(b) It remains in-hand until
(i) it is played fairly from in-hand, or
(ii) a foul is committed whilst the ball is on the table

(c) The striker is said to be in-hand when the cue-ball is in-hand as above.

[DawRef]

It is also in-hand when the frame scores are level and the black has been re-spotted.