The Hand Shake

[EvilDealer]

First off I would like to ask what the hand shake actually means in terms of the outcome of the match?

Let me explain at bit more.

During the World Open, in ronnys 147 I noticed that after Ronny potted the pink he shook his opponents hand before the ref asked him to finish off the black, which he did of course. Does the hand shake mean the end of frame? or is he entitled to finish the frame after the handshake. Should that 147 count?

The reason I ask is because it happened to me last night in a cup game. Each frame only had 6 reds, there was also some weird rule that if you make a break above 25 you get bonus points...
anyway, I cleared the colors to win the match but left the black, shook my opponents hand, then the ref kindly reminded me that if I potted the black I could get extra points for a 27.
I went back rolled in the black and had the opponent team in uprour! I was told that it won't count, and as they were the home team will not record it, not that it really matters, but I couldn't help feeling it was pretty pour sportsmanship to discount that and be so aggressive about it.

[thinsy]

Ronnies 147 did count because it is up to the referee to declare the frame/match over!! In Ronnies case he was encouraged to finish the frame!!!!

Your situation, as I understand it, was the same so should count.

[coomsey76]

i agree..... and the ref did remind that if you potted the black you'd get extra points!!

I would say the ref ends the game not the hand shake.....

[EvilDealer]

Yeah I should have made that point. guess its to late now

[Souwester]

In my opinion the handshake is simply a gesture dictated by etiquette, although it may of course be accompanied by a statement saying that the frame is conceded.

Imagine this scenario: player at the table is 5 points ahead with just pink and black left. He pockets the pink and turns to shake his opponent's hand... but the cue ball rolls and goes in off, leaving the frame wide open. Would you say that the hand-shake had ended the frame?

Conversely there's a situation akin to the ROS one, where a player is on a big break but thinks he's missed the pot so turns to shake his opponenets hand, but the pink rolls on into a pocket, so the break is still active, and the player should be allowed to continue the break.

[coomsey76]

I would say in both scenarios the frame is not over so you would carry on.......

of course it comes down to player etiquette but i would only ever want to win a frame fair and square the way it should be won......

[Sneaky-Pete]

You said The Ref told you that there were extra points available if you potted the black.

Surely The Ref was wrong advising you, you should know the rules, and the points not counted.

If a your opponent was potting a red before taking the colours and the ref said "If you pot the pink, not the brown, you can win the frame" how would you feel about that?

[montoya10]

You said The Ref told you that there were extra points available if you potted the black.

Surely The Ref was wrong advising you, you should know the rules, and the points not counted.

If a your opponent was potting a red before taking the colours and the ref said "If you pot the pink, not the brown, you can win the frame" how would you feel about that?

You might have a point, I'm not sure about this. But the topic owner asks for someting completely different.
In his case, opposing team did not count the final black and the bonus points just because the referee's interruption. They discounted the points due to the handshake, which, in my opinion, should never be seen as an official way to end the match.
Matches end with referee's officiating.

[poolqjunkie]

You can shake hands with your opponent at the beginning of the match, in the beginning of each frame, sometimes even before you shoot the re-spotted black ball, and also when the frame is over--and if you like, during the frame (e.g. when you meet a new team mate of the other team and you were introduced for the very first time or whatever). No rule says it automatically ends a frame once you shake your opponent's hand.

I believe the ref can advice you to shoot the black as in the case of ROS' 147, he can also advice you on what the highest break of the tournament is. I remember Ms Tabb once asked the crowd to remain quiet when Mark Selby had already won the championship but was still shooting when she said something like, "please be quiet as he can still get the highest break prize". It is not the same as advicing the player on shot selection (i.e. to say something like if you shot the brown then your opponent would need a snooker, dont shot the yellow...etc)--which would be illegal.

I also think it was a very good point that the ref was the one who suggested you to shoot the black, and he determines when the frame ends.

I would also argue that you were the striker and you were still at the table so you were free to keep shooting if you want, even if your opponent came to you and shaked your hand after you have made the pink. It again shows that a handshake is just a social formality and has nothing to do with the status of the frame.

[kennymhs]

I have always thought that a match is not finished, not until the ref has said that "frame and match..."

[DawRef]

Take the scenario between Hendry and Williams in this years Open. Hendry started to put his cue away when he thought that Williams was going to win the frame (and match). When Williams missed, Hendry put his cue back together and played on, despite needing a snooker.
The referee should have asked if Hendry was conceding, as to all intents and puposes by putting his cue away, he had.