cue ball direction

[shooter8]

hi all i am new to this site,and also to the game of snooker. i have a question i hope someone can answer in idiot proof terminology for me. ok if you hit the cue ball on a strait shot on the bottom left will it screw back to the left side,? what iam trying to say is watching the vids they say that side only takes place when the cue ball hits the cushion.so if you are not playing onto a cushion you cannot direct the cue ball by using bottom right or left then?.i know you can with just top middle or bottom, but apparently not with side is this correct?. the reason i ask is i hear a lot of players saying put top or bottom right or left on it,even though they are not going into the cushion,surely there is no point in putting side on the cue ball unless you are going into the cushion,or have i got this all wrong, and you can direct the cue ball with side after it hits the object ball?. thanks for any help.

[The Statman]

Try it! Place the ball on the brown spot, and aim to hit it across the spots to hit the cushion behind the black spot.

Aim with the cue pointing in the right directin but, as you say, hit it bottom-left.

You will see that the cue-ball will firstly leave the tip of the cue slightly to the right (probably pass the right-hand side of the blue spot depending on how hard you hit it) and then straighten up and hit the cushion roughly in the middle.

Now imagine that you were playing a pot on a ball 12 inches away from the white at the start. Because the route of the white is warped, you would have to take this into account when you aim because you will hit the wrong bit of the object ball to pot it.

This doesn't exactly answer your question. But, in a way, a ball is the same as a cushion in that it is something the cue-ball will meet causing it to bounce off. Because you've hit it with bottom (screw), it will come back towards you (well, if you hit the object ball straight) but it is true that you won't notice much of the 'left'.

Perhaps this is best demonstrated with the brown on its spot and the white on the yellow spot.

Aim to hit the brown straight (along the baulk line) with bottom left. The cue-ball will come back towards you pretty much straight (back along the line) as long as you have hit it pretty straight, without the 'left' taking much effect. But when the cue-ball reaches the cushion, it will rebound not straight but considerably to the right (towards the pink end of the table).

If you played with TOP-left, it would go forward and rebound towards the LEFT. But when putting backspin on (bottom), then it will rebound in the opposite direction.

I hope I've got that right - there are other people here who will be able to explain it much better (and probably much more properly) than I have just done!

[The Statman]

the reason i ask is i hear a lot of players saying put top or bottom right or left on it,even though they are not going into the cushion,surely there is no point in putting side on the cue ball unless you are going into the cushion,or have i got this all wrong, and you can direct the cue ball with side after it hits the object ball?. thanks for any help.

Just going on to that bit...

Well, because the side affects the direction of the WHITE, takingit slightly off course from the direction the cue was aiming, it means that it approaches the object ball from a slightly different angle. That means of course that it will come off at a slightly different angle too. So while the side may not really affect the movement as such, it will have affected the angle of hit, and that is what will change things slightly.

[snookerpoolman]

Quote: Now imagine that you were playing a pot on a ball 12 inches away from the white at the start. Because the route of the white is warped, you would have to take this into account when you aim because you will hit the wrong bit of the object ball to pot it.

Good point Stat man. I play with a lot of side (arguably too much) and I often deliberately line up long shots thick and play with loads of side to pot them and get a good white... So effectively I'm aiming to miss the pot, but allowing the side to pot the ball for me - if you like! It can be a difficult part of the game to master, but try it - particularly on long 'shot to nothing' type shots where you need to run the cue ball round the back of the black spot and then back toward the blue or baulk colours. It's a wonerful shot if you can grasp it.

Also the small swerve when you're very tight on a ball is another good shot to master...get's you out of loads of trouble when break building and you've left a very tight position...


Original Source: http://www.thesnookerforum.com/board...#ixzz1AP511MKr
TSF - TheSnookerForum.com

[shooter8]

thanks guys, i notice you both said it will change the direction slightly, but what i really wanted to know is players don't use side on the cue ball to change the natural direction to any great extent unless it is going into the cushion as this would not work correct or not? i don't think i explained myself very well, as i think what i am asking is probably a stupid question to a seasoned player so you think i am being more technical than i am. so if i had a straight shot and i hit the cue ball on the left or the right will it fly off in the direction of the side i am putting on it, or will it make no huge difference an just carry on its natural direction? as i am a complete novice it seems to me that if you hit the cue ball on the left it should go to the left after hitting the object ball. but i am told this only happens after it has hit the cushion. is this true please? thanks.

[nevets]

Side is mainly used to change cueball trajectory off a cushion. It is also used to move the white before it hits the object ball; ie. a swerve. This swerving is what makes side difficult to play as the cueball will move before it hits the object ball.
As you are new to snooker, you will be better off not worrying about side too much. By all means try to understand it, but don't bother playing it just yet. Concentrate on developing a smooth, straight cue action and solid stance. Learn to play screw and run-through well.
Even quite good players only use side on a few shots each frame.

[The Statman]

thanks guys, ... but what i really wanted to know is players don't use side on the cue ball to change the natural direction to any great extent unless it is going into the cushion as this would not work correct or not?

Well, players don't use side unless they have to BECAUSE it complicates the judgement of the line of aim.

I suppose the trick is to play the previous shot well enough that you are left in a position where you don't need to use side. Why complicate things when they don't need to be?

Also I think nowadays players are very confident of long or semi-long pots, so rather than use side to get preferred position on the next pot, they are happier to leave the next shot a little more difficult because they're still confident of getting it. If you like, the slightly more difficult pot is still easier than the difficult judgment of the effect of the side.

[shooter8]

thanks again guys, so i can take it by your replies that the white ball curves a bit off line on its way to the object ball,which i thought it would, but after hitting the object ball it just follows its normal path irrespective of any side you might have chosen to put on it? so therefore putting screw left or right has little or no more effect than just using normal screw? sorry for being such a pain, if all the above is true why is that if i have a red ball in both corner pockets with the white ball just off the side rail about 3f from the red, if i play the red using bottom right,it sends the cue ball following the rail over to pot the other red ball in the right hand pocket,but if i just use normal screw with out any right hand side, it follows the same path across the table but quite a bit away from the rail and misses the red ball completely ? i have tried this shot out quite a few times, and it dose seem to me that putting bottom side dose send the ball at a sharper angle how can this be if all the vids I've seen say," side on the cue ball only takes effect after coming into contact with the cushion". i am still scratching my head. thanks for any more advise.

[snookerpoolman]

thanks again guys, so i can take it by your replies that the white ball curves a bit off line on its way to the object ball,which i thought it would, but after hitting the object ball it just follows its normal path irrespective of any side you might have chosen to put on it? so therefore putting screw left or right has little or no more effect than just using normal screw? sorry for being such a pain, if all the above is true why is that if i have a red ball in both corner pockets with the white ball just off the side rail about 3f from the red, if i play the red using bottom right,it sends the cue ball following the rail over to pot the other red ball in the right hand pocket,but if i just use normal screw with out any right hand side, it follows the same path across the table but quite a bit away from the rail and misses the red ball completely ? i have tried this shot out quite a few times, and it dose seem to me that putting bottom side dose send the ball at a sharper angle how can this be if all the vids I've seen say," side on the cue ball only takes effect after coming into contact with the cushion". i am still scratching my head. thanks for any more advise.

Hi Shooter. Yes the effect you talk about will happen with power when you cue it well - this exaggerates the side effect. The side spin 'throws' the white, a very useful shot in billiards, which if you ever get an opportunity to play, do so as it really helps you learn the angles and the spins and you can transfer all that knowledge to your snooker game.

A similar shot to the one you've given as an example is both black pockets with reds in the jaws and use top spin to pot both reds in one shot.

Put the cue ball on the baulk line about 3 - 4 inches from the left side cushion. Aim for the left hand red just a fraction to the right of full ball and really, really follow through with as much top-spin as you can muster... the white ball should banana accross the black spot and pot the right hand red. It's a great test of cueing and harnessing the power. Don't get frustrated if you dont get it first time... It will come and once you've mastered, do it every now and then to check your cueing. Remember, it's a real clean power shot with MAXIMUM follow through. You may even find you can get more on and come inside the red - regulate this by taking a bit of power off, but still follow through.

[shooter8]

thanks snookerpoolman. that's cleared that one up then, i thought i was going mad, so side can take affect off the object ball before it hits the cushion, despite what the coaches.thanks for all the help lads helping me to put this one to bed i hope.

[damienlch]

hi shooter8, nevets had given very sound advice on not worrying about side too much... using side to affect the trajectory of the cue ball after making contact with the object ball is very high level stuff indeed... furthermore it is rarely used and its use is often debatable.

i think it's better off to apply side only when you want to create certain angles off the cushion which you can't do with a normal shot, for e.g. when the normal path is being blocked by another ball.

[shooter8]

thanks for all the advise guys, i will take on board the fact about only playing side when i have too, coming of the cushions. as i say i am a novice at snooker,but i have been playing pool badly for about 35 years,and i have used the shot i mentioned in the earlier post loads of time. so when i came across the statement that side only takes effect after hitting the cushion i was a bit puzzled as to what was happening on the said shot. so now i know that on certain shots side does actually take effect before hitting the cushion.

[nrage]

thanks again guys, so i can take it by your replies that the white ball curves a bit off line on its way to the object ball,which i thought it would

Not quite, the curve takes it back onto and even over and past the line of aim. It's the initial path off the cue tip which is off the line of aim. See..

http://www.youtube.com/user/FargoBil.../3/mXJ7bDafTms

The two terms used are 'squirt' which is the angle off the line of aim the ball takes initially, and 'swerve' which is the curve in the path afterwards. The causes of these two effects are explained really well in the video linked.

, but after hitting the object ball it just follows its normal path irrespective of any side you might have chosen to put on it? so therefore putting screw left or right has little or no more effect than just using normal screw? sorry for being such a pain, if all the above is true why is that if i have a red ball in both corner pockets with the white ball just off the side rail about 3f from the red, if i play the red using bottom right,it sends the cue ball following the rail over to pot the other red ball in the right hand pocket,but if i just use normal screw with out any right hand side, it follows the same path across the table but quite a bit away from the rail and misses the red ball completely ? i have tried this shot out quite a few times, and it dose seem to me that putting bottom side dose send the ball at a sharper angle how can this be if all the vids I've seen say," side on the cue ball only takes effect after coming into contact with the cushion". i am still scratching my head. thanks for any more advise.

The videos are all saying "Side spin has no effect on the path of the white after contact with the object ball." and this is what I believe is true.

I can explain the result you're seeing...

1. The shot you describe has a fairly large margin for error, meaning you can 'cheat' the pocket a lot hitting the first red quite thick, or quite thin and still pot it.

2. When you play with right hand side, you throw the white slightly to the left. This makes the contact thinner, and the natural angle straighter.

.. these are the main cause of the effect you see, however there is one other thing affecting the result..

3. When you play with plain screw and no side you are able to get slightly 'more' screw, because you can strike slightly lower on the ball.

So, the shot with no side has a thicker contact, and more screw. Meaning the natural angle is flatter, and more screw draws the ball farther from the rail. The shot with rhs has a thinner contact, and less screw. Meaning the natural angle is narrower and less screw draws the ball to a path closer to the rail.

[singchin]

30 degree and 90 degree rule

any shot you cut with centre or side the ball will deflect about 30 degrees
use index finger and middle finger thats about 30 degrees.

any shot with stun will deflect about 90 degrees use thumb and index finger.

use left or right hand to see where your ball deriction is going.

hope that helps

[nrage]

any shot you cut with centre or side the ball will deflect about 30 degrees
use index finger and middle finger thats about 30 degrees.

any shot with stun will deflect about 90 degrees use thumb and index finger.

use left or right hand to see where your ball deriction is going.

hope that helps

These are very useful basic rules, they apply for a wide range of cut angles either side of 1/2 ball. To expand on them a bit...

Very thin and very thick shots have much narrower angles, and on thin shots you often cannot apply screw etc. The next thing to consider is the amount of top or bottom spin.

When a ball is naturally rolling and strikes another, it looses the forward motion but keeps the rolling rotation, thus it actually has over rotation or top spin. This spin will narrow the resulting angle, because a naturally rolling ball will come off at 30 degrees and then spin forward of 30 degrees. The amount of top spin depends on the power of the shot, so more power = narrower angle, but there is a theoretical maximum adjustment.

Interestingly, when you play with top spin, you're not actually spinning the ball faster than a natural roll, you're just ensuring it is rolling naturally before impact with the object ball.

The first thing a center ball, or screw shot does is slide, the slide distance is dependant on the power and amount of screw. If the ball is sliding you get the 90 degree rule/angle, and then screw comes into the picture. If you apply screw, such that the ball is spinning backwards on impact it will come off at 90 degrees and then spin back/wider to a resulting angle of more than 90 degrees.

It's all very cool if you ask me