Foul After Balls Come to Rest

[The Statman]

I have just looked back and, for those of you who have nothing better to do on a sunny Friday afternoon, here is the thread from two years ago.

The input of Peter Rook, an experienced referee with great input into the 1995 rulebook rewrite, is a particularly useful and informative.

But I would recommend that the thread be read from the start - the post by davis greatest on 1.2.09 at 5:31pm GMT, and wildJONESEYE's post immediately following, show the two sides of the argument perfectly - what the rule actually says and the opposite which we all know is what should happen.

I think, also, that an extra part of the Rules which might be usefully added, is that the referee will call the break score after every stroke, signifying that the previous stroke has been completed and the following stroke can commence.

There is nothing currently in the Rules suggesting that the referee has to call any break scores, apart from announcement of the penalties for a foul.

[Gerry Armstrong]

Thanks for the link.

[Souwester]

Thanks for the link Statman: I had not previously seen that thread, but it's good to note that my conclusions drawn in my last post are in accord with what Peter Rook and John Street said!

One further scenario to consider: frame goes down to the black ball. Player uses the rest to pocket the black. All balls have come to rest, and as he gets up off the table he touches the cue ball. This cannot be a foul on the next shot, because there isn't one. Or is it being suggested that there is no foul, and that the frame is won? Personally I would have no hesitation in calling a foul!

[The Statman]

Thanks for the link Statman: I had not previously seen that thread, but it's good to note that my conclusions drawn in my last post are in accord with what Peter Rook and John Street said!

One further scenario to consider: frame goes down to the black ball. Player uses the rest to pocket the black. All balls have come to rest, and as he gets up off the table he touches the cue ball. This cannot be a foul on the next shot, because there isn't one. Or is it being suggested that there is no foul, and that the frame is won? Personally I would have no hesitation in calling a foul!

Yeah well that comes under the last shot of his turn - where he "remains the striker until the referee is satisfied that he has left the table"

The referee would be wise, here, to refrain from calling "7 and the frame" until such point as he is thus satisfied.

[DawRef]

The referee would be wise, here, to refrain from calling "7 and the frame" until such point as he is thus satisfied.

Agreed. As a referee, I wait until the player has replaced any rest (or given me to replace) and the stroke finished ( whether a foul, pot, etc) before calling the scores.

What do you think would be the ruling if the 'home team' knew about a faulty rest? Would that constitute as 'belonging to the player' and hence the calling of a foul legitimate?

[APK]

I totally agree.
I would consider the removal of ancillary equipment from the table to be part of the shot. The score should not be called until the ancillaries have been removed from the table or passed to the referee.
If the ancillaries are to be used for the next shot then once they are removed from the current position (out of danger) then I would consider that shot complete and beginning to move them into position for the next shot is the next shot.

The problem arrives when the movement of the ancillaries is very slight to move between first and second shot. I think in this instance you have to give the player the benefit of the doubt and score the first shot and foul the second.

As for the home team knowing about the rest head problem, just because it is their home table, doesn't mean they are responsible for the equipment found at it whilst playing. I would hope that any self respecting team would change a bad rest for a good one if they can. The Rules state that a player is responsible for any equipment that he brings to the table and is not responsible for any equipment found at the table or borrowed from the referee.