Ball droping in while at the table?

[cazmac1]

I was playing snooker last sunday and my opponent left the red on the lip of the pocket, I was cuing up to pot the ball and was just about to hit the white when it droped in. I think I read that the rule has been changed but haven't a clue as to what. Does anyone know the rule.

[finabb]

I was playing snooker last sunday and my opponent left the red on the lip of the pocket, I was cuing up to pot the ball and was just about to hit the white when it droped in. I think I read that the rule has been changed but haven't a clue as to what. Does anyone know the rule.

Replace the red back on the table from where it fell in

[cazmac1]

Thats what i thought, but my opponent was saying something about a 4 second rule. In the end we left the red in and I continued but with me playing a different red. what was the old rule?
Thanks for the info Finabb

[DawRef]

Section 3 Rule 9

(a) If a ball falls into a pocket without being hit by another ball, and being no part of any stroke in progress, it shall be replaced and any points scored shall count.
(b) If it would have been hit by any ball involved in a stroke:
(i) with no infringement of these Rules, all balls will be replaced and the same stroke played again, or a different stroke may be played at his discretion, by the same striker.
(ii) if a foul is committed, the striker incurs the penalty prescribed, all balls will be replaced and the next player has the usual options after a foul.
(c) If a ball balances momentarily on the edge of a pocket and then falls in, it shall count as in the pocket and not be replaced.

Examples of each part with a red (or any ball) hanging on the edge of a pocket

Example of (a)
Ball on edge of pocket, your opponent has left the table. As you approach the table, the ball falls in. It is replaced and you continue your turn. No penalty.

Example of b(i)
You have pocketed a red and are playing the blue. As you pot the blue, the red drops (it does not get hit by any other ball). ALL balls are replaced and you play the stroke again, or a different stroke of your choice. No penalty.

Example of b(ii)
You have pocketed a red and are playing the blue. You touch another ball with your sleeve. At the same time, the red drops. You incur a penalty of 5 points, all balls are replaced and your opponent has the usual options after a foul.

Part (c) has been debated as to how long 'momentarily on the edge' is. As a referee, I would take it as if, in my opinion, the player had finished his stroke and left the table and the ball falls in, I would replace it.

There is no '4 second rule'. I hope this clears up your question.

[cazmac1]

Thanks dawref, Fully understood.

[Bigmeek]

Thats what i thought, but my opponent was saying something about a 4 second rule. In the end we left the red in and I continued but with me playing a different red. what was the old rule?
Thanks for the info Finabb

Happened to me last night. Black fell in whilst I was at the table. Foul seven away somebody shouted! I was pretty sure I was clear on the rules and stood my ground. Only bit I got wrong was that my opponnent re-spotted the black instead of putting it back over the pocket.

[Bigmeek]

Assume if I try to pot a ball and leave it hanging over the pocket and then bang the table in disgust which makes the ball fall its a foul and a warning for ungentlemanly conduct?

[The Statman]

Section 3 Rule 9

(a) If a ball falls into a pocket without being hit by another ball, and being no part of any stroke in progress, it shall be replaced and any points scored shall count.
(b) If it would have been hit by any ball involved in a stroke:
(i) with no infringement of these Rules, all balls will be replaced and the same stroke played again, or a different stroke may be played at his discretion, by the same striker.

... Examples of each part with a red (or any ball) hanging on the edge of a pocket

... Example of b(i)
You have pocketed a red and are playing the blue. As you pot the blue, the red drops (it does not get hit by any other ball). ALL balls are replaced and you play the stroke again, or a different stroke of your choice. No penalty.

...

I'm not sure that you've got that right, DawRef.

In your example, surely the fact that no ball would have interfered with the red, means that the red would simply be replaced and the shot would be allowed to stand.

Only if the red would have been hit by a ball during the stroke, would the balls be replaced and the same striker replay the shot of his choice?

[DawRef]

Yes Statman. Error on my part. Should have added that if after the red had dropped the cue-ball then falls in the same pocket (without hitting the red) then all balls are replaced and the shot played again.

Assume if I try to pot a ball and leave it hanging over the pocket and then bang the table in disgust which makes the ball fall its a foul and a warning for ungentlemanly conduct?

Yes.

[Souwester]

Assume if I try to pot a ball and leave it hanging over the pocket and then bang the table in disgust which makes the ball fall its a foul and a warning for ungentlemanly conduct?

Yes.

I'm not sure how you can foul the player. What infringement of the rules is there?

I would agree, though, that the player should be warned for ungentlemanly conduct.

[cazmac1]

I agree, It would be very difficult for the ref to make that call.

[The Statman]

I'm not sure how you can foul the player. What infringement of the rules is there?

I would agree, though, that the player should be warned for ungentlemanly conduct.

I agree. The fact that the bang happened to knock a red, which was right on the edge, into the pocket has no bearing on the ungentlemanly conduct.

If you wouldn't have warned him if the red had stayed up, then why would you warn him just because it was close enough to fall in? Equally, if you would have warned him if the red had stayed up, you still do.

[Souwester]

Conduct such as banging a table, thumping a cue on the floor etc really is frowned upon these days, and should result in a formal warning. In this case, if the table has been thumped hard enough to make the red drop, then there's no doubt that a warning should be given.

[The Statman]

Conduct such as banging a table, thumping a cue on the floor etc really is frowned upon these days, and should result in a formal warning. In this case, if the table has been thumped hard enough to make the red drop, then there's no doubt that a warning should be given.

I'm not sure that I agree unequivocally with your last sentence, given that we are talking about some scenarios where a red drops seemingly without any knocking at all.

[DawRef]

I'm not sure how you can foul the player. What infringement of the rules is there?

For a ball to be legally potted, it has to have been hit by the cue-ball (or another ball that is or could be on, e.g one red hitting another or free ball hitting the ball on). I would think that by hitting the table you have not legally struck the object ball, hence calling the foul.