whats the rule on cue ball size?

[kevy62]

Hi there, here is the problem, lets assume you are involved in a snooker league match, & after playing a few strokes notice that the cueball is very light in weight. (undersize)

There are many ways in which this is picked up on by a good standard of player very early into a frame, such as playing off the pack for a safety, but the cueball throws off way too wide before & after making contact with the pack of reds, or taking a pot red from distance, but with the same reaction as above, you end up striking the red too thin.
(this is wrong on so many levels)

Anyway, I lifted the cueball & placed it against the bottom cushion touching against the green & brown, this instantly showed a difference in both size & weight (too small/light) I placed my cue across the top of the three touching balls to quickly confirm this.

Should snooker leagues need to enforce that all ball sets are of the same size / weight, manufacture, in order to preserve a players skill level ?

Could this atcually be called a form of cheating ?

Are there any snooker Rules which can be enforced to prevent this ?

[jrc750]

This is what the rules say on the subject

2. Balls

The balls shall be of an approved composition and shall each have a diameter of 52.5mm with a tolerance of +/- 0.05mm and:
(a) they shall be of equal weight within a tolerance of 3g per set
(b) a ball or set of balls may be changed by agreement between the players or on a decision by the referee

So maybe you should of insisted on changing the white

[kevy62]

Many thanks for the input, but that was my first suggestion, the second one was for me to go to my car & get my own set of Cased Aramith tournament balls , to which I was told to get f*cked.

I just fail to see why anyone would want to deliberately play with a ball set like this, unless it is because they believe they might be able influence the outcome of a match by doing so..

[jrc750]

Many thanks for the input, but that was my first suggestion, the second one was for me to go to my car & get my own set of Cased Aramith tournament balls , to which I was told to get ******.....

Well i think that would call for a word with who ever runs the league to sort them out

[kevy62]

I do agree with the idea of sorting the problem out, although I'm not sure how to go about it. The reason being that I brought this exact problem up at a committee meeting a couple of years ago & nothing was done about it then, so I was looking for another way of tackling the problem.

Do snooker leagues need to be affiliated to a govening body in order to call themselves a "snooker" league?

If they do, then don't they have the right to enforce the use of the correct equipment, or face some kind of slap on the wrist ?

Just a thought..

[Souwester]

No, sadly leagues do not need to be affiliated to a governing body, so there's no form of regulation or disciplinary system from another body. Maybe, though, they affiliate to a county association which has its own rules?

What do the league rules say? Do they mention being played under the official rules of the game, generally recognised rules of the game, IBSF rules, World Snooker rules or anything along those lines? All refer to the same thing, of course, and as mentioned in the second post, the official rules do refer to weight and diameter.

[kevy62]

No, sadly leagues do not need to be affiliated to a governing body, so there's no form of regulation or disciplinary system from another body. Maybe, though, they affiliate to a county association which has its own rules?

What do the league rules say? Do they mention being played under the official rules of the game, generally recognised rules of the game, IBSF rules, World Snooker rules or anything along those lines? All refer to the same thing, of course, and as mentioned in the second post, the official rules do refer to weight and diameter.

Thanks for the reply on such a daft subject...although I think you may well be right, perhaps it's because I was actually too close to the subject.. that I had forgotten all about that.
I will check to see exactly how it's worded & keep my fingers crossed that something good may come of it.
thanks again.

[cantpotforshíte]

This is a real bugbear of mine. Two or three of the clubs in my local league have at least one set of balls with a light white. In this case, the white balls are not small, they're just a cheaper replacement and probably Aramith Premier rather than Aramith Tournament Champion.
The odd thing is, the teams in question genuinely don't seem to realise or notice.
Usually the light whites weigh 128g as opposed to 142g for the object balls so the game is completely unplayable if you want to pot more than one ball in any one break.
I was going to bring this up in the annual league meeting, but after reading the guide book that comes with our league membership (the one that has the fixtures in, records, adverts etc) it already says that all games are to be played in accordance with the rules as laid out by the EASB.
So I sent off for their rulebook and, as it happened, it's a facsimilie of the WSA rules. As stated above, the rules state that the balls must be within 3g.
Therefore, there's no need for me to take the matter up in the AGM, it's already covered in the EASB rules.
You can buy a set of digital scales off Ebay for less than a tenner, and they'll fit in your coat pocket. Take a spare 142g white ball in your other coat pocket, and the rule book, and you're armed and ready to go.
If anybody takes issue with this, just explain the situation to them.
Do try not to put your head to one side and talk to them as though they are a bit simple, as I do. It doesn't help.
If they still won't play under snooker rules, suggest that they try playing 8 ball pool instead. Or tell them to get a £50 four foot table from Argos, stay at home and play their own little version of snooker by themselves.

[franksandellsnooker]

Aramith tournament champion ball sets comply with the regulaions and weigh c.141.grams. However their green box club sets do not comply and can be anything up to 13grams. lighter. Suppliers asked to provide new whites often just send green box type which will not match. Amazingly many of them abrogate responsibility when challenged on this point. White balls because they suffer the most wear need regular replacement.

[franksandellsnooker]

Sorry if the above seems to repeat sentiments in early postings but I was called away to sell a cue and the posting was delayed. F.

[kevy62]

This is a real bugbear of mine. Two or three of the clubs in my local league have at least one set of balls with a light white. In this case, the white balls are not small, they're just a cheaper replacement and probably Aramith Premier rather than Aramith Tournament Champion.
The odd thing is, the teams in question genuinely don't seem to realise or notice.
Usually the light whites weigh 128g as opposed to 142g for the object balls so the game is completely unplayable if you want to pot more than one ball in any one break.
I was going to bring this up in the annual league meeting, but after reading the guide book that comes with our league membership (the one that has the fixtures in, records, adverts etc) it already says that all games are to be played in accordance with the rules as laid out by the EASB.
So I sent off for their rulebook and, as it happened, it's a facsimilie of the WSA rules. As stated above, the rules state that the balls must be within 3g.
Therefore, there's no need for me to take the matter up in the AGM, it's already covered in the EASB rules.
You can buy a set of digital scales off Ebay for less than a tenner, and they'll fit in your coat pocket. Take a spare 142g white ball in your other coat pocket, and the rule book, and you're armed and ready to go.
If anybody takes issue with this, just explain the situation to them.
Do try not to put your head to one side and talk to them as though they are a bit simple, as I do. It doesn't help.
If they still won't play under snooker rules, suggest that they try playing 8 ball pool instead. Or tell them to get a £50 four foot table from Argos, stay at home and play their own little version of snooker by themselves.

wow! I had no idea this was such a problem for others in as much as I do get told I'm being selfish, & nobody really cares that much or can't be bothered because it can't make that much difference anyway... what a load of bullspit, not only does it change every shot that is played on the table , it also is ruining the game for everyone trying to learn how to play.

It seems there are other like-minded players out there, which makes me feel less like I'm just crying over spilt milk & trying to get something done about it. thanks.

[Souwester]

Aramith tournament champion ball sets comply with the regulaions and weigh c.141.grams. However their green box club sets do not comply and can be anything up to 13grams. lighter. Suppliers asked to provide new whites often just send green box type which will not match. Amazingly many of them abrogate responsibility when challenged on this point. White balls because they suffer the most wear need regular replacement.

I'm sorry but you're wrong when you say the green box balls don't comply, because as the first response pointed out the rules simply specify the weight tolerance limit across a set. Therefore, a set where each ball weighs say exactly 128gm is perfectly acceptable under the rules.

As long as the heaviest ball is not more than 3gm heavier than the lightest then that's all that matters.

[The Statman]

It can be a problem, but I've not known it cause difficulties in the league I play in.

If it was brought up at a committee meeting I honestly don't know what would be the upshot of the subject - and I am the secretary!

Having said that, I'm sure there are tables that are outside the dimensions given in the Rules. A League is primarily a social calendar - and that's not to say that one should not make effort to abide by the rules - but it would seem to me a bit harsh to, say, exclude a club from the league because the only table they possess is half an inch below regulation height.

As for the balls, well as I say I've never known it be brought up as an issue in my league. But we do arrive at clubs in good faith that their equipment is playable and I'm afraid, at the end of the day, the practical reality may well be that it just comes down to home advantage.

[franksandellsnooker]

Souwester. I understand exactly and in respect of the full sets of green box genuine Aramith with regard to their compliance my statement was incorrect.However the market is awash with cheap imitations of the green (and blue) box ball made of a plastic compound which I maintain are not suitable. The major problem arises when replacement whites are ordered and these are put with match play(blue box) sets giving a distorted response from the object ball. In billiards the problem is far worse. The need for ball accuracy across the set is down to 0.5g. which is vital for proper enjoyment of the game. With rare exceptions the distributors neither know nor care.

[cantpotforshíte]

As for the balls, well as I say I've never known it be brought up as an issue in my league. But we do arrive at clubs in good faith that their equipment is playable and I'm afraid, at the end of the day, the practical reality may well be that it just comes down to home advantage.

It can't come down to home advantage. Because it's against the rules to have a white ball 14g lighter than the object ball. As Franksandellsnooker says, the game is practically unplayable with a white much lighter than the object ball. And this situation arises a lot when the suppliers send a white ball that doesn't fit the existing set.
I actually ordered a couple of whites a few years ago from an established supplier for the owner of my local snooker club. They were advertised as 142g ATC balls. I specifically asked him to make sure they were 142g when I ordered them. They came, and they were 128g.
The snooker centre up the road from mine had a similar problem: they opened at the same time that Aramith were pushing those red-spotted cue balls. They ordered ten new sets of pristine balls, but nobody took to using the spotty whites. So to appease their customers, they ordered ten replacement ATC plain white balls from Peradon. The balls came, and they were all 128g, 14g lighter than the object balls.
They played with them for two or three years before the current owners put it right. Basically because their players weren't practised enough to notice.
The trouble is, these wrong whites never get chucked in the canal like they should be. They just sit under the bar in a Tesco's bag until somebody who doesn't know any better decides to swap them and they end up mixed up in the 142g sets again.
Kevy62 makes a good point when he says it ruins the game for those who are trying to learn. You won't get a break above twenty if you are playing one week with the lighter white and regulation object balls, and one week with the regulation white, and regulation object balls. breakbuilding is about pinpoint position of the cueball. Depending on the shot, a light white could end up anything from a couple of inches away from intended position, to about six feet away.

I honestly would find it easier to get a break above fifty with no pink and black on the table, than I would with a light white and a full compliment of colours. If you turned up to play at an away venue, and the opposing team captain explained to you that you'll have to play the game with no pink and black as they had lost them, I don't think you'd put it down to home advantage.