whats the rule on cue ball size?

[andy carson]

It can't come down to home advantage. Because it's against the rules to have a white ball 14g lighter than the object ball. As Franksandellsnooker says, the game is practically unplayable with a white much lighter than the object ball. And this situation arises a lot when the suppliers send a white ball that doesn't fit the existing set.
I actually ordered a couple of whites a few years ago from an established supplier for the owner of my local snooker club. They were advertised as 142g ATC balls. I specifically asked him to make sure they were 142g when I ordered them. They came, and they were 128g.
The snooker centre up the road from mine had a similar problem: they opened at the same time that Aramith were pushing those red-spotted cue balls. They ordered ten new sets of pristine balls, but nobody took to using the spotty whites. So to appease their customers, they ordered ten replacement ATC plain white balls from Peradon. The balls came, and they were all 128g, 14g lighter than the object balls.
They played with them for two or three years before the current owners put it right. Basically because their players weren't practised enough to notice.
The trouble is, these wrong whites never get chucked in the canal like they should be. They just sit under the bar in a Tesco's bag until somebody who doesn't know any better decides to swap them and they end up mixed up in the 142g sets again.
Kevy62 makes a good point when he says it ruins the game for those who are trying to learn. You won't get a break above twenty if you are playing one week with the lighter white and regulation object balls, and one week with the regulation white, and regulation object balls. breakbuilding is about pinpoint position of the cueball. Depending on the shot, a light white could end up anything from a couple of inches away from intended position, to about six feet away.

I honestly would find it easier to get a break above fifty with no pink and black on the table, than I would with a light white and a full compliment of colours. If you turned up to play at an away venue, and the opposing team captain explained to you that you'll have to play the game with no pink and black as they had lost them, I don't think you'd put it down to home advantage.

which league do you play in??

my personal bugbear on away games is tables in shocking conditions (bare cloths lifting slates etc)

[cantpotforshíte]

which league do you play in??

my personal bugbear on away games is tables in shocking conditions (bare cloths lifting slates etc)

I actually play in the Macclesfield and district league.
Everybody has their personal bugbear I suppose, but personally I think it's easier to compensate for bare cloths, misaligned slates, dead cushions than it is to compensate for a ping pong white ball.
At least on a tired looking table, you can get the white to with a foot of where you're trying to get it.

[kevy62]

It can be a problem, but I've not known it cause difficulties in the league I play in.

If it was brought up at a committee meeting I honestly don't know what would be the upshot of the subject - and I am the secretary!

Having said that, I'm sure there are tables that are outside the dimensions given in the Rules. A League is primarily a social calendar - and that's not to say that one should not make effort to abide by the rules - but it would seem to me a bit harsh to, say, exclude a club from the league because the only table they possess is half an inch below regulation height.

As for the balls, well as I say I've never known it be brought up as an issue in my league. But we do arrive at clubs in good faith that their equipment is playable and I'm afraid, at the end of the day, the practical reality may well be that it just comes down to home advantage.

I'm going to go out on a limb here & just ask this question because I think it could be relevant as a rough guide to levels of play.

(I don't want to appear rude & I don't really want you to answer)

How many breaks over 65 were made in your whole league last month?

It's only 5 reds/blacks & clear the colours = 67

I'm betting less than 2, Right? that would be less than 1 every 2 weeks.
(assuming you only play once a week)

This lack of large breaks could be down to a couple of things..

One is simply because the level of play is being ruined by the use of poor quality / mismatched ball sets , (cueballs) this alone will reduce the chance of the visiting opponent being unable to make any sizeable breaks, mainly due to the cueball comming off at just about any angle, but not the correct one. (unplayable) as so many other players comments show.

Then there is a tactic so rife within the sport, that the home player actually believes he might undermine the visiting player's confidence in his own ability, by not using match balls, he may be able to scrape out a frame through luck, rather than skill, as you refered to it , "home advantage" what a jip !

I'm not in any way trying to cause trouble, or appear rude to anyone, but a new set of Aramith TC balls cost £95 & an average team could have 6 or more players , & most clubs have more than one team, so if they all chipped in then it would be a small price to pay to have that consistancy...

I personally own 2 sets of TC balls which only get used in matches.

This does not really stop the tactic of players refusing to change the balls , as a ploy. (the match balls were just deliberately not being made available) to the visiting team.

I know this may be well over the top, but that's like saying, "we don't have a spider rest for you to use" but get one from behind the bar after the match has ended..

The use of a good set of balls will not only improve "all players" confidence within his own ability, but also enable the most basic of skills to be able to be transfered from one table to another, (home,away) or another county , exactly as it should be.
Without this knowledge, even one of the most basic of simple half-ball shots become almost impossible to judge. (except) to the home player, who practices with these odd-balls all the time, & then can't play worth spit when he needs to pay on a table equiped with balls of the correct size/weight.

I personally believe this is why more & more players get so frustrated with the sport that they just give up playing, due to a total lack of continuity.

One of the first & most important areas of snooker has been overlooked, it's the part about sporting conduct, which has not only been overlooked, but totally ignored for way too long.

All the balls should be the same size, anything less than that & you have the right to insist that they are changed. ( there are rules on Balls..)
just as there is on table size / equipment.

Failing to comply with this "rule" shoud be enough to put a players motives into question by his league rep, committee, or his peers.

Don't you agree?

[The Statman]

Unfortunately I don't have a monthly breakdown but there was a 120 made last Thursday, which added to the 131, 91 and 80 means that the current top four highest breaks have been made by different people. Oh, I forgot the 102 in the second division; I think that was last month but it may have been December.

My own teammate made 64 with the first 8 reds and the 67 clearance with the last five reds in the same frame last week. This late in the season, I only keep records of 70+ breaks in the top division and 50+ in the second, because I need to keep to one sheet of A4 including the league tables.

You can view the weekly results at www.wcclarkleague.blogspot.com although I've not added last week's results yet.

Nevertheless, I don't quite know what point you were trying to prove even if I did unexpectedly reply to your post. I had said at the top of my post that I had not experienced any problems in my league with weight of balls. Maybe that's because I'm fortunate to have clubs with equipment in good order rather than because my league has players who don't know one end of the cue from the other.

[The Statman]

By the way, I wasn't trying to suggest that it is a shrug of the shoulders and the "home advantage" should be condoned. In fact, my exact words were "I'm afraid, at the end of the day, the practical reality may well be that it just comes down to home advantage."

I said that because I honestly don't know to what extent, or how, a League committee can police the state of the equipment at each club. I certainly haven't gone to new clubs and inspected their balls - or even their table - before allowing them into the league. Participation levels are half what they were only 10 years ago and I have to be honest and say our League would ony turn down an application very, very reluctantly for that very reason.

As I say, I've never had such problem reported and I would rate far more seriously a belligerence of a home team not to respond to a reported problem, than I would the occurrence itself.

You are right that the lower divisions are on the whole wanting a night out with a keen bit of competition and the two highest breaks in my bottom division do not add up to 70.

[barking]

random sizes

I play on a table which has a random set of BOTH 2-1/16 and 2-1/8 very old and hacked up balls. Very strange things happen. I am gonna start takin a set of 2- 1/16 balls.

[kevy62]

By the way, I wasn't trying to suggest that it is a shrug of the shoulders and the "home advantage" should be condoned. In fact, my exact words were "I'm afraid, at the end of the day, the practical reality may well be that it just comes down to home advantage."

I said that because I honestly don't know to what extent, or how, a League committee can police the state of the equipment at each club. I certainly haven't gone to new clubs and inspected their balls - or even their table - before allowing them into the league. Participation levels are half what they were only 10 years ago and I have to be honest and say our League would ony turn down an application very, very reluctantly for that very reason.

As I say, I've never had such problem reported and I would rate far more seriously a belligerence of a home team not to respond to a reported problem, than I would the occurrence itself.

You are right that the lower divisions are on the whole wanting a night out with a keen bit of competition and the two highest breaks in my bottom division do not add up to 70.

Well my congrats to you sir, you have a very nice, healthy league there.

Although you seem to have grasped the wrong end of the stick, (so to speak) I'm not really interested in trying to solve problems where there are none.

However, not all leagues sound as nice to play in as yours, some are not so well run..

The general standard of play is probably lower in those leagues due to many factors, the ball size, being only one of them.
I meant no offence to either you or your league, but my point was, that it is almost impossible to play with incorrect sized ball sets. (nothing more)

The question was.. how would you deal with this stupid problem of missmatched ball sets, (if it was to ever happen) being deliberately or otherwise used to try & influence the outcome of a frame/match. (most notably cueballs being undersize) & then refusing to change even the cueball , for one of the correct size/weight!
Even the offer to supply our own set of TC balls to play the match with was rejected.

Any ideas on this stupid problem would be welcomed , but please understand I have no wish to actually cause even more problems, by causing an arguement at the start of a match .

To me this is black & white, but not so for others.

It would be very nice to live in a perfect world , but we don't.

If no sensable solution can be offered/found, then I would rather just stop playing snooker altogether , & go back to playing billiards, Cheers.

[franksandellsnooker]

Back to playing billiards That's got to be you're best decision Mind you you'd better make sure the balls are accurate to 0.5g. across the set.

[cantpotforshíte]

I play on a table which has a random set of BOTH 2-1/16 and 2-1/8 very old and hacked up balls. Very strange things happen. I am gonna start takin a set of 2- 1/16 balls.

I'm not surprised that strange things happen! It'll be interesting to see how much more quickly you improve with a set of balls. good luck!

[burny]

We have the same issues at my club pretty decent tables and good actual sets of TC balls but the whites are very light we think they have been swooped in the past but out of interest where is the best place to buy a good quality cue ball? I have seen them advertised for between £5 on eBay and £15 at other sites the cost difference isn't the issue but it also doesn't mean the the £15 ball will be the best quality,are aramith TC cue balls the only choice to make and if so could anyone suggest a trusted supplier.
Cheers dean

[kevy62]

Back to playing billiards That's got to be you're best decision Mind you you'd better make sure the balls are accurate to 0.5g. across the set.

Yes that's very true but I was still thinking of going back anyway

I would suggest this perticular problem with light balls is less likely to happen within decent snooker leagues, as a good standard of player would never want to play with crap balls in the first place, even to the point of providing their own match balls within the clubs with less funding available. cheers

[kevy62]

We have the same issues at my club pretty decent tables and good actual sets of TC balls but the whites are very light we think they have been swooped in the past but out of interest where is the best place to buy a good quality cue ball? I have seen them advertised for between £5 on eBay and £15 at other sites the cost difference isn't the issue but it also doesn't mean the the £15 ball will be the best quality,are aramith TC cue balls the only choice to make and if so could anyone suggest a trusted supplier.
Cheers dean

Hi Dean,
I have telephoned suppliers in the past asking for new Aramith cueballs, who basically say "well it's off white" or "I don't really know because it's in a box & I can't open it"
This is just a get out of jail free card, that some staff try to use because they really just don't know.. but If you are willing to buy the goods, then they should have no problem opening a box for you. If they do have a problem , then don't order from them, & try another supplier. (there are plenty out there to chose from)

If you order a ball & it turns up the wrong weight (that you actually asked for) IE: you ordered 142g & it turns up 139g , then it could be returned under the distance selling regulations, so don't worry.

Personally I have always tried to used professional players or ex-professionals to supply if possible, as they will not want to deal in crap.

"A reputation takes years to build & seconds to ruin"

So if you ask them to weigh a cueball before they send it, they won't run a mile away from you screaming or looking for the nearest exit ..

I'm not saying you will never have any problems with any supplier, but the majority of them will want to help you as much as possible, in order to gain the possibliity of some repeat business.

Good luck in finding what you need , cheers.

[Luke Hooper]

i got caught out twice so far playing against clubs that use a light/smaller white..

its horrible, the first time i was playing on a table that i could probably of knelt down and played my shots with a light white added to that, ended up losing on the pink ball..

the second time was a couple of weeks ago, played a brilliant opening red, and took black, red, black, red black with stun shots, then when i played the next red after finishing inch perfect straight to just roll through for another black i dropped the red in and the white stopped directly above the black nad i was like huh??? it wasnt a kick or anything, and i wasnt exactly cueing badly so i know that normally it would of been perfect but in this instance it led to me essentially being snookered as i need to long swan neck to reach over the pack to hit the black. With the black and many more reds in the open without playing cannons i could of quite easily gone on to knock in the highest break of the league, or who knows, go on a knock in a maxi??? haha ok maybe thats too far but it just goes to show how much it can mess someones game up.

In fairness to the guy i played, he potted really well, but he would never really be in the same standard of play, like without sounding like a big head the guy could probably knock in a 10 break here and there. but after that happened my head went to pop and in one frame snooker he managed to force a black ball game and slammed it in down the rail like it was over the pocket to win..

gutting...all because of that silly light white!!!!