Awkward Scenario

[funnydoodle]

Here's the scenario: Player A leading by 10 points with pink and black left on the table. However, the black is right at the mouth of a corner pocket which will surely drop in with the slightest touch. Knowing that Player B needs both remaining balls to win, he pots the black in committing the foul and has 7 points deducted. Reason behind this is he wants the black to go back to it's spot so that if his opponent pots the pink, he will not have an easy pot on the black. Since Player A is now 3 points ahead, Player B still needs both balls to win.

In an actual game, does this consider as a foul and a miss, with player B given the option to have Player A retake the original shot? Otherwise, it is really unfair.

[ref300]

Assuming the Pink can be hit central full ball it is a foul & miss regardless of the scores.
There is also a rule called Miss (Section 2 Rule 20) "A miss is when the cue-ball fails to first contact a ball on and the referee considers that the striker has not made a good enough attempt to hit a ball on."

[Souwester]

Well technically it *IS* a foul and a miss.

If a referee is certain that the player deliberately played the black rather than the pink (and it does seem a little bit of a strange tactic) then Player A could be warned for ungentlemanly conduct and the frame could be awarded to Player B.

Ref 300: Assuming the Pink can be hit central full ball it is a foul & miss regardless of the scores.

That's not strictly the case. The rules provide for being able to continue calling F&M once the the first F&M call has been made where central full ball contact is available regardless of difference in scores. Normally you can't call the first F&M if snookers are required either before or as a result of the shot. However, if the referee considers that the player is playing to deliberately not hit the ball on the F&M can still be called.

14. Foul and a Miss
The striker shall, to the best of his ability, endeavour to hit the ball on. If the referee considers the Rule infringed, he shall call FOUL AND A MISS unless only the Black remains on the table, or a situation exists where it is impossible to hit the ball on. In the latter case it must be assumed the striker is attempting to hit the ball on provided that he plays, directly or indirectly, in the direction of the ball on with sufficient strength, in the referee's opinion, to have reached the ball on but the obstructing ball or balls.

(a) After a foul and a miss has been called, the next player may request the offender to play again from the position left or, at his discretion, from the original position, in which latter case the ball on shall be the same as it was prior to the last stroke made, namely:
(i) any Red, where Red was the ball on,
(ii) the colour on, where all Reds were off the table, or
(iii) a colour of the striker's choice, where the ball on was a colour after a Red had been potted.

(b) If the striker, in making a stroke, fails to first hit a ball on when there is a clear path in a straight line from the cue-ball to any part of any ball that is or could be on, the referee shall call FOUL AND A MISS unless either player needed snookers before, or as a result of, the stroke played and the referee is satisfied that the miss was not intentional.

(c) After a miss has been called under paragraph (b) above when there was a clear path in a straight line from the cue-ball to a ball that was on or that could have been on, such that central, full-ball, contact was available (in the case of Reds, this to be taken as a full diameter of any Red that is not obstructed by a colour), then:
(i) a further failure to first hit a ball on in making a stroke from the same position shall be called as a FOUL AND A MISS regardless of the difference in scores, and
(ii) if asked to play again from the original position, the offender shall be warned by the referee that a third failure will result in the frame being awarded to his opponent.

(d) After the cue-ball has been replaced under this Rule, when there is a clear path in a straight line from the cue-ball to any part of any ball that is or could be on, and the striker fouls any ball, including the cue-ball while preparing to play a stroke, a miss will not be called if a stroke has not been played. In this case the appropriate penalty will be imposed and
(i) the next player may elect to play the stroke himself or ask the offender to play again from the position left, or
(ii) the next player may ask the referee to replace all balls moved to their original position and have the offender play again from there, and
(iii) if the above situation arises during a sequence of miss calls, any warning concerning the possible awarding of the frame to his opponent shall remain in effect.

(e) All other misses will be called at the discretion of the referee.

(f) After a miss and a request by the next player to replace the cue-ball, any object balls disturbed will remain where they are unless the referee considers the offending player would or could gain an advantage. In the latter case, any or all disturbed balls may be replaced to the referee's satisfaction and in either case, colours incorrectly off the table will be spotted or replaced as appropriate.

(g) When any ball is being replaced after a miss, both the offender and the next player will be consulted as to its position, after which the referee's decision shall be final.

(h) During such consultation, if either player should touch any ball in play, he shall be penalised as if he were the striker, without affecting the order of play. The ball touched shall be replaced by the referee, to his satisfaction, if necessary, even if it was picked up.

(i) The next player may ask if the referee intends to replace balls other than the cue-ball in the event that he should ask for the stroke to be played from the original position, and the referee shall state his intentions.

[cazmac1]

Is not a black on it's spot an easy pot. Bad logic here I can't see why any one would want to play that kind of shot.

[gettingbetter]

Over the pocket means that it can be potted from anywhere on the table. Pink (assuming its not on its spot), position would have to be played in order to get to a spotted black.

[The Statman]

The completely bad logic here is that of course it will be called a Miss - so the other player can have the balls replaced so he's in exactly the same position except with a smaller lead!

[Souwester]

I can see that, but to my way of thinking:

1. It would be better to play the pink into a safe position to start with rather than give seven points away;
2. it shouldn't be too difficult to get from pink to black no matter where it is.

[cazmac1]

I can see that, but to my way of thinking:

1. It would be better to play the pink into a safe position to start with rather than give seven points away;
2. it shouldn't be too difficult to get from pink to black no matter where it is.

Exactly, I can't think of two many situations that a half decent player given the opertunity to pot the pink could not play a positional shot to get on the black when its on it's spot. The correct shot to play has to be a good safety.

[funnydoodle]

well, i posted this because this thing happened when 2 of my friends were playing each other.... they are snooker newbies and are not good in position play. in fact, they never think of it, they only care about potting balls..... so i guess you'd understand why player A did that... furthermore, there are no referees, so the miss rule is totally ignored. (and i guess they dont even know the rules exist.)

for those who mention of getting the pink save, all player B would do is try to fluke it with a powerful shot. now, what happens if he flukes the pink? he'd surely get an easy black.

[Souwester]

You should never play the game thinking that you or your opponent is going to get a fluke!

[Krypton]

Exactly. Play the pink safe - next to the blocked pocket is an EASY safety.

Even if he'll go for a hammer shot, hoping for a fluke. Even if he gets the fluke 1 time out of 30.

4 times out of 30 you'll get an easy pink afterwards...

[Johnnycash]

Exactly, I can't think of two many situations that a half decent player given the opertunity to pot the pink could not play a positional shot to get on the black when its on it's spot. The correct shot to play has to be a good safety.

Bad call! I could set you up with at least 100 scenarios where you would find it difficult to get onto a black on it's spot when you were in a position to pot the pink!

[Krypton]

100 to go - make a start and bring it down to 99 remaining...

[Johnnycash]

how about a straight pink along the baulk cushion?

[Krypton]

Are you able to leave that as a safety 100% when being faced with only pink and black left?