Rule question

[michaelm]

my friends encountered a rule question this afternoon while they were playing. Player A is 8 points ahead after he potted the pink. We all considered him winning the game. However, he kept playing the black and scratched. Does he still win the game? I've never seen any senario like this. The pros either leave the black on or pot the black without committing any fouls. Please help!!

[vucko117]

He won by 1 point,as foul on the last black is the end of the frame

[michaelm]

Thanks for your reply. Are you positive?

[jrc750]

Foul on last black is always end of frame.......unless that means scores are tied, in which case you would re-spot the black and toss for who goes 1st. But in your scenario player A was still 1 point in front so could not be caught, so wins

[damienlch]

Foul on last black is always end of frame.......unless that means scores are tied, in which case you would re-spot the black and toss for who goes 1st. But in your scenario player A was still 1 point in front so could not be caught, so wins

hmmm... then can the opponent choose to play on and perhaps try to angle the black with a jaw or hope for a miscue? ...it's desperate and i've never seen it attempted before... but stranger things have happened... maybe the rule book has something on this?

[Gerry Armstrong]

hmmm... then can the opponent choose to play on and perhaps try to angle the black with a jaw or hope for a miscue?

No the opponent can't choose to play on.

[damienlch]

No the opponent can't choose to play on.

thanks gerry... i thought as much... this seems to fall under section 2(1)(b) of the rule book, doesn't it? i'm presuming it is an implicit claim by the striker for the frame.

SECTION 2. DEFINITIONS
1. Frame
A frame of snooker comprises the period of the play from the first stroke, with all the balls set as described in Section 3 Rule 2, until the frame is completed by:
(a) ...
(b) claim by the striker when only the Black remains and there is more than seven points difference between the scores in his favour
(c) ...

[Souwester]

.......unless that means scores are tied, in which case you would re-spot the black and toss for who goes 1st.

Just to clarify that remark: you toss to see who has the choice of who goes first.

[rickster147]

correct ...

[DawRef]

Section 3 Rule 4 End of Frame, Game or Match
(a) When only the Black is left, the first score or foul ends the frame excepting only if the following conditions apply:
(i) the scores are then equal, and
(ii) aggregate scores are not relevant
(b) When both conditions in (a) above apply
(i) the Black is spotted
(ii) the players draw lots for choice of playing
(iii) the next player plays from in-hand, and
(iv) the next score or foul ends the frame
(c) When aggregate scores determine the winner of a game or match, and the aggregate scores are equal at the end of the last frame, the players in that frame shall follow the procedure for a re-spotted Black in (b) above.

"Although the first score or foul when only the Black is left normally ends a frame, this does not apply if that score or foul results in tied scores when the match is decided by frames won. If the scores are tied in a frame that is part of an aggregate scores match, each frame that ends with the scores level remains a tie unless it is also the final frame and the aggregate scores are also level.

As an example, Player C is against Player D in a 2-frames game which is part of an aggregate 4-frame match between A & C on one side and B & D on the other. Player A previously beat B by 12 points and now in their final frame, Player C is in play and is 5 points behind Player D when he, Player C, fouls the final Black. The foul does not tie the frame, but it makes the aggregate scores level, so C & D (no others) play with a re-spotted Black to decide the match."

("" Taken from John Street's book, The Billiards and Snooker Referees' Handbook)

[DawRef]

you toss to see who has the choice of who goes first.

The rules actually state "draw lots", not necessarily toss a coin, though that has become the norm.

I was refereeing a game once and didn't have a coin, so put a piece snooker chalk in one hand and asked a player to choose which hand he thought the chalk was in.