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  • #1

    Penalty Question

    After a chat with a friend I have a question about the penalty awarded after the situation below:
    Player is snookered on Red, he misses the Red and the Cue Ball hits the Blue AND then the Cue Ball hits the Pink into a pocket (but could have been the Blue hitting the Pink).
    My friend thinks the FIRST foul on the Blue counts, 5 points away.
    I think the Pink counts, 6 points away, as it WAS potted and is of higher value (not just because it was hit which would have been the 5 points for the Blue).
    I have had a look at Rule 10 Penalties and just cannot work it out from the listing there.
    Any one enlighten me and my friend
    Cheers
    Up the TSF! :snooker:
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Rule 10. Penalities, section (b) says "value of the ball on or ball concerned, whichever is higher..."
    .. then (b)(iv) is the blue in your example "causing the cue-ball to first hit a ball not on;"
    .. and (b)(iii) is the pink in your example "causing a ball not on to enter a pocket;"

    So, 6 points away as Pink is higher than Blue.
    "Do unto others 20% better than you would expect them to do unto you, to correct for subjective error"
    - Linus Pauling

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    • #3
      Thanks for that nrage, that is the same line I was looking at but the permutations confused me for a mo.
      Cheers
      Up the TSF! :snooker:

      Comment

      • #4
        Correct. If the blue and then pink were just hit, (neither being potted) the foul would be for 5 points as the incorrect ball struck first was the blue. As the pink was potted, the foul for 5 points for hitting the blue was superceded by the foul for 6 points of potting the incorrect ball on. (If the black went in, the foul value would be 7 points).
        Dean.
        If you want to play the pink, but you're hampered by the red, you could always try to play the brown!

        Comment

        • #5
          Indeed. And of course, if black was the ball on, it would be 7 points in any case.

          Comment

          • #6
            To be pedantic:

            The pink wasn't potted. Go on and read the rules again, taking care to find out what a POT really is.

            The pink fell into a pocket, that's it.

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally Posted by Krypton View Post
              To be pedantic:

              The pink wasn't potted. Go on and read the rules again, taking care to find out what a POT really is.

              The pink fell into a pocket, that's it.
              The pink was potted. It went into a pocket after being struck by another ball (as stated in original post) ergo was potted. Just because the White didn't pot the pink is incidental.

              Foul is still 6 points.
              If you want to play the pink, but you're hampered by the red, you could always try to play the brown!

              Comment

              • #8
                No, you don't get it:

                A POT is a legal, scoring, shot. A POT is an object ball entering a pocket. Everything else is "a ball that fell into a pocket".

                According the rules, the pink went in, the pink fell, the pink entered a pocket, the pink... whatever, it left the table, but it was NOT POTTED. By definition, a pot can NEVER be a foul, as it has to be a legal scoring shot.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally Posted by Krypton View Post
                  No, you don't get it:

                  A POT is a legal, scoring, shot. A POT is an object ball entering a pocket. Everything else is "a ball that fell into a pocket".

                  According the rules, the pink went in, the pink fell, the pink entered a pocket, the pink... whatever, it left the table, but it was NOT POTTED. By definition, a pot can NEVER be a foul, as it has to be a legal scoring shot.
                  "my bad"
                  ...the pink fell into a pocket...
                  Up the TSF! :snooker:

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    I stopped myself from being quite so pedantic but now that someone else has done it for me, the most straightforward term is "pocketed" for a ball that is ... well, pocketed, during a foul stroke.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Hi The Statman, thanks for the restraint!
                      "pocketed during a foul stroke" I shall remember that for next time
                      cheers
                      Up the TSF! :snooker:

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally Posted by The Statman View Post
                        I stopped myself from being quite so pedantic but now that someone else has done it for me, the most straightforward term is "pocketed" for a ball that is ... well, pocketed, during a foul stroke.
                        Likewise! I got as far as looking at the wording for the definition of a pot but couldn't be arsed to actually post, because I thought it was just a little too pedantic.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          That's why I excused in advance for being pedantic

                          It's just a good thing for everyone to at least have look at, if not reading through, the rules - at least once, or once in a while even better


                          Or, we could have it the other way round: As anyone thinks a "pot" is a ball being pocketed, change the rules and forget about today's definition of the pot, as it's not common anyway.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Rules. Section 3 Para 11(f) If more than one foul is committed in the same stroke, the highest value penalty shall be incurred.

                            Comment

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