Does cue weight affect control of shot?

[poolqjunkie]

I believe with cue speed you should look at the kinetic energy formula, 1/2 m * v^2. This is the energy that you are trying to transfer to the cue ball from your cue. An increase of mass will increase kinetic energy but the same unit of increase in velocity(speed) will give you a much bigger increase in energy. Therefore, velocity is the key factor here.
To increase velocity, you need to find a weight which you can move at maximum velocity. Some people cannot move a 19oz cue as fast as they can with a 18oz cue so their maximum cue speed decreases as they move up to 19oz but some people can move a 19oz cue faster than a 18oz cue (or about the same speed) in which case they can generate even more energy with a 19oz cue than a 18oz cue.
Everyone is different, and the balance of the cue also plays a big part in how fast you can move that cue at that particular weight.
But with control it is a different story because it is not really about cue speed but more a matter of transfer of vibration down the shaft to the grip hand upon impact.

[johno]

Apparently John Higgins plays with a light cue (around 16oz) and Terry Griffiths won the world title with
a cue around 15oz. That said these light weights are unusual, and most players play with around 18oz.
I would look at a cues above 17oz but cue action is paramount and I would concentrate on this.
It's very easy to get caught up in cue specs and forget that it's how you deliver the cue that matters,
perfecting your follow through and timing will help with the jerking.

[cazmac1]

All good stuff.

[02aleric]

I would not agree deep screw. A heavier object once moving forward takes more effort to stop, so as all good coaches teach that you should drive the cue forward and not quit or decelerate it makes sense that a heavier cue should aid this as once moving forward it should naturally want to slow down less than a lighter cue. I know we are only talking about oz's but in this game tiny things make huge impacts. Of course if the cue was so heavy that it was hard to start moving in the first place it would have the opposite effect but I think most players would not have any trouble driving a 19 cue forward.

I'm not that knowledgeable about snooker cues but being a professional golfer i can relate this to golf. The heavier the golf club the further the ball can be hit but also the faster the golf swing the further the ball can be hit. There has been a lot of experimentation with this in golf. A really heavy club has the potential to go further but cannot be swung very fast. A light golf club doesn't have the distance potential of a heavier one but can be swung faster. I've played around with this myself and have found that the ideal weight is a compromise. Not too heavy and not to light, essentially what 'feels' right. I think this relates to snooker. I personally feel that a heavier cue gives you no more cue power than a light cue. From this i conclude that you should use whatever weight cue 'feels' right in your hands! The most common cue weights range from around 16-19oz, i don't believe that in this range there will be much difference in the cuepower that can bee achieved!

[poolqjunkie]

I'm not that knowledgeable about snooker cues but being a professional golfer i can relate this to golf. The heavier the golf club the further the ball can be hit but also the faster the golf swing the further the ball can be hit. There has been a lot of experimentation with this in golf. A really heavy club has the potential to go further but cannot be swung very fast. A light golf club doesn't have the distance potential of a heavier one but can be swung faster. I've played around with this myself and have found that the ideal weight is a compromise. Not too heavy and not to light, essentially what 'feels' right. I think this relates to snooker. I personally feel that a heavier cue gives you no more cue power than a light cue. From this i conclude that you should use whatever weight cue 'feels' right in your hands! The most common cue weights range from around 16-19oz, i don't believe that in this range there will be much difference in the cuepower that can bee achieved!

Yes, this is essentially what I was talking about. Work done is the change of kinetic energy, and kinetic energy is proportional to the square of velocity. So, if you can increase velocity you can increase work done, which is the rate of energy transfer.
To increase velocity you need a cue that you can move the fastest. A cue that is too heavy will move slower and hence decreases the maximum velocity. For each person, the optimum weight is different. At this optinum weight, one can move his cue at the highest velocity hence creating the greatest energy transfer to the cue ball. This is why you cannot just find the heaviest cue to achieve the greatest cue power.

[hotpot]

I, ve tried cues ranging from 15 oz - 19 oz and i believe that you cant say that cue a which is 19 oz will generate more power than cue b which is 15 oz because on numerous occassions found that the lighter cue generates more power , i think iys down to the characteristics of each individual cue .

I,m no expert on this but i,ve used enough cues to say that you cant tell how a cues going to react by the weight alone .

[cuebru]

I had a control problem with my 18oz whippy cue. The biggest problem was always hitting too hard. So I dug out a stiff old 14oz one piece and it was like night and day. Now I can usually put the cue ball where I want with much better control and can accelerate adequately for the power shots.
It has been great not seeing the cue ball drift 5ft past the shape zone. Using side is just as good or better now. Also I get a lot more feedback at the butt. But after all that said, I hav a 15, 16, and 17oz cues that I will be using in the future to see if I can find an ideal weight of cue for me. Hope to get a cue made someday and I want to get the numbers as close to perfect as I can.

[liliput]

I seem to screw back easier with cues weighing around 17oz to 18oz than a 19oz one. So I agree with you that it's mostly the execution, usually.

Likewise for me, and also imagine using a 19oz cue for hours on end, going to need a full body massage after, to reduce fatigue.

[Deepscrew]

The more read on this the more fustrating the wait (its only been 3 weeks, ha!) for my new cue is becoming. Ive been playing with a 20oz cue for 10 years. Hopefully dropping 2oz will be a revelation.

[damienlch]

Likewise for me, and also imagine using a 19oz cue for hours on end, going to need a full body massage after, to reduce fatigue.

Fatigue from using a 19oz cue? I hope you are not using it for javelin practice...

Although admittedly there were times I felt like chucking it...

[Terry Davidson]

I've experimented with all different weights on cues and in fact still am. What I've discovered is the power of a cue comes from the SHAFT FLEX and not the weight.

The trick is to get the correct shaft flex for the weight of the cue. I believe an 18oz cue needs a medium flex, a 20oz cue would need a medium-stiff and a 17oz cue would need something slightly more whippy that medium flex.

However, the trick here is - HOW DOES ONE DEFINE AND MEASURE THE STIFFNESS OF A CUE'S SHAFT? -. The way I do it is to hold the ferrule in the left hand between thumb and forefinger and then hold the shaft around 18" down the shaft and flex the ferrule with a little pressure. Depending on how easily the ferrule will move sideways gives me an idea of the flex (should be done AGAINST the grain too by the way especially in ash).

As an example. I have a centre-joined 2-piece cue which weighs 17.3oz and seems to be slightly more whippy than my own Trevor White cue which is at around 18oz last time I checked. With a long blue off the spot I can EASILY screw the white back to the yellow pocket (or the baulk cushion if I miss the pot) using this slightly whippy 2-piece, however with my medium-stiff TW cue I have to use more power (a longer backswing) to achieve the same cueball action.

The side effect of this is with the stiffer TW cue I am much more accurate with the pot. So I think it's a trade-off between weight and flex and each cue will have it's own 'power' (for want of a better term) which is determined primarily by its shaft flex but also to a lesser degree by its weight.

Terry

[Deepscrew]

All good stuff Terry, as usual.

The amount of grip you get on the ball to generate spin must also have a great deal to do with the tip too dont you think? Even if cues are tippied with the same brand the reaction could be quite different.

[Terry Davidson]

deepscrew:

The 3 cues I used in my rather limited test all had good tips on them, 2 with Kamui MH and one with a fairly hard Elk Master. I believe the tips would all grip the cueball approximately the same.

But I would like to make a couple of points which could show just how important (or not) the tip is. I had a student recently who had a very nice, but very whippy, older B&W cue which had been modified with a 3/4-joint. The tip on this cue was a really crappy Elk Master or Blue Diamond which was relatively hard and the cue's weight was light, somewhere just below 17oz. With this cue I had trouble potting a long blue (always right of the pocket about 2") however the screw I got had the cueball coming back to the baulk cushion like a rocket! From this I'm assuming the tip played a minor part and it was more to do with the whippy shaft flex. I then tried a straight black off the spot with cueball 1ft behind and was able to easily screw off the side cushion and across the table to the other side cushion with no problem at all.

The other point...I once saw Steve Davis using a rubber device which fit over the ferrule and tip. I don't know whether the rubber was very soft or a little harder but Steve was able to do amazing spin shots with this device (which I believe is illegal as far as the WPBSA and IBSF are concerned). So I think the answer is yes, the type and hardness of a player's tip will have a definite effect on the spin he can apply but I still believe the shaft flex is the most critical part of a cue's specs in effecting the amount of spin, especially when all other considerations are roughly equal (like the tip).

Now that experiment of Steve's has me wondering if we could have a layered tip where one of the lower layers was made of some type of soft rubber. I think this type of tip would take a lot of experimentation on the manufacturer's part but the result might be well worth it if players could get used to the increased spin on the cueball. The other point would be those players who get unintentional side with their technique might not be able to use the tip at all until they got their technique to where they can deliver the cue straight and through the centre of the cueball. Another problem might be with the constant compacting of the rubber layer the glue may not be able to hold the tip together for very long.

But it would be very interesting to see how a tip like this would effect spin imparted.

Terry

[cuebru]

I'm surprised that I havn't seen a good method to determine stiffness posted, how about using something like a fish scale to pull the tip down say three inches with two or three feet hanging over the edge of a table. Make sure the cue is secured to the table and is well protected from the edge of the table when flexing and of course protect the ferrule from the scale. If this was standardized then we would know what we are talking about and then could compare a number four stiff to a ten.

[ken147]

I read somewhere on the forums or PM with a forum member (Cueinhand) that LKT cues, Mr.Tsang has scientific instruments that measures the stiffness and flex of a shaft to determine the playability of the wood.

Ken