Yet another miss rule question

[nevets]

I've just started playing in my local league premier division, where the miss rule is enforced. I am not used to playing it or reffing it but I have read the rules!
In lasts nights game, I was reffing and my team mate was put in a snooker tight behind the pink near the side cushion at the top of the table. The ball on is the yellow, in the open at the bottom of the table. His obvious escape is off one cushion (the one the cue ball is near to). He has to hit the cushion very early and there is then about 9 feet to the yellow. It's pretty tough to hit in my opinion, he is a player with a high break of 50-odd, but only makes regular 20s and 30s, so he is okay but not great.
He plays the obvious shot but misses by quite a wide margin. I think he could have done better so I call a miss and the cue ball is replaced. He repeats the shot with the same result and it is replaced again. Then again. He changes the angle a bit and on the fourth attempt gets very close. I don't call a miss as I think he has made a good enough attempt for his ability.
His opponent stares at me waiting for the miss call. I tell him I think the last attempt was good enough so no miss, and that my team mate is clearly not trying to gain any advantage.
He goes ballistic. His team mates join in. They insist that as a miss was called in the first instance, I have to keep calling it until the ball on is struck. They also insist while they are at it, that at any time if a player fails to hit the ball on it is automatically a miss - effectively enforcing the rule more strictly that for the pros.
Surely this can't be right for players of local league standard!

[Terry Davidson]

First of all, the ref is ALWAYS right. Secondly, if your opponent had read the rule as written by the IBSF they would see it allows for a close call as long as the cueball passes the object ball and also there is nothing in there that says once you call a miss you must stick with that until the ball is hit.

Unfortunately due to the pros on TV this rule is mostly interpreted as a 'MUST HIT' rule because the pros generally play that way however I have seen in a TV pro match where the player came very close on the third attempt (and the cueball passed the object ball) and the pro referee did not call the miss the third time. It was a difficult 4-cushion hit I think but the referee must take into account the player's ability along with the difficulty of the hit and I would say you did the right thing.

However, let's wait for one of the more knowledgeable refs on here to give their opinion.

(In our ranking tournaments here our Tournament Director is using the 'must hit' rule irrespective of the difficulty of the hit or the player's ability and this is because there are no referees and there is no way to misinterpret the ruling. If you miss any snooker it's a MISS, no matter what and no subjective call.)

Terry


Terry

[nevets]

Thanks Terry. There is a wide variety of ability in the division, a few century-breakers, even one 147 player, down to players with a high break of 20-odd. The "must-hit" rule would probably be okay for the best players, but the rest of us could be there all night trying to get out of a really tough one! There seems to be no allowance for ability at all, even though it's a handicapped league.

[Souwester]

There is nothing in the rules that says that once you've called a miss you have to keep calling a miss until the ball on is struck. It sounds like you made some sound calls, and it is your judgment alone, as referee, in determining whether you "consider that the striker has not made a good enough attempt to hit a ball on". (to quote the definition of a miss from the rule book). Section 3 r14 goes on to say "The striker shall, to the best of his ability, endeavour to hit the ball on. If the referee considers the Rule infringed, he shall call FOUL AND A MISS...". As long as you are happy that he has tried to hit the ball on to the best of his ability then you need not call a miss.

Sometimes you call a miss, and after a few attempts you (as referee) realise that the player really is making his best attempt to hit the ball on, but the shot just isn't there. When the umpteenth shot is no closer than the first, it is a brave decision to stop calling misses, but if the player has got rather closer, then it's fair enough to just call a foul.

[nevets]

Thanks Souwester. As I said, I have actually made the effort to read and understand the rules, but it doesn't help when there is a mob who think they know the rules, but haven't bothered to read them. Maybe the only thing to do is print the official rules, keep them in my pocket or at the club and produce them when necessary.
The sad thing is I, and most players in the league, are only playing for an enjoyable night of snooker, and the chance to play better players and hopefully improve a bit. If it isn't fun (and this incident wasn't), then there's not much point playing.

[The Statman]

Thanks Souwester. As I said, I have actually made the effort to read and understand the rules, but it doesn't help when there is a mob who think they know the rules, but haven't bothered to read them. Maybe the only thing to do is print the official rules, keep them in my pocket or at the club and produce them when necessary.
The sad thing is I, and most players in the league, are only playing for an enjoyable night of snooker, and the chance to play better players and hopefully improve a bit. If it isn't fun (and this incident wasn't), then there's not much point playing.

Yes, it sounds like you used your discretion on this one - so well done! As Souwester says, just because the first go wasn't good enough, doesn't mean you have to keep calling a Miss until a hit is made.

By all means get a printed copy of the Rules but do not allow yourself into the position where you start arguing over it at the time. The referee's decision is final and the frame must continue as uninterrupted as possible. By all means discuss it after the frame/match and quote the rules and point them out if necessary.

[DawRef]

The professional player is usually trying to hit the object ball in such a way as to leave it safe, hence the reason they always get called for a F & M. Majority of club players/amateurs are happy just to hit the ball, let alone get it safe!!
As stated above, the rule clearly states, that is up to the referee to consider whether the attempt was good or not and as you were the referee, then as also stated you considered the attempt good enough and therefore right in your decision. End of story. No argument. Well done.

It would have been interesting if an 'official' referee had been injudicating. Wonder if they would have still argued the point then!

[nevets]

Thanks statman and dawref. I think you are right, an "official" referee probably wouldn't have had to endure 4 meatheads bearing down on him.

[jrc750]

Spoils a good friendly game of snooker when players don't know the rules, best to not play the miss rule at all, (unless your top class that is, most of us ain't) either you hit it or you don't, if oncoming player doesn't like the position you left him in, you go again, simples

[nevets]

Exactly jrc, what's the point of turning up to play when that kind of sh*t happens? I'd rather just play a mate.

[deant1982]

As said, the referees decision is final, so fair play for sticking to your guns and not giving in to call the miss when pressured to do so.

A guy in our team last night tried to escape a really nasty snooker, and just clipped the green (White had already gone off 2 cushions and caught then green thin), if it hadn't touched the green it would have hit the red, and a miss was called on him by his team mate. Our guy just scoffed at it and said we ain't good enough to play that. We'd be here all night. In our league (div 2) it is supposed to played, but there is an unwritten rule it will only be called IF the ref and aggrieved player think no attempt was made or they could see a different ball but chose a different ball to leave nothing. I've called them on my self where I've made a completely misjudged shot and hit nothing and left nothing. On the whole our league is pretty good and players will call it on themselves without the refs needing to. The game is played (most of the time) in good spirits, and that rule only causes grief in non professional games.

[DawRef]

Another option is to become a referee yourself. Don't tell anyone and once you are a Class 3 (relatively easy to obtain if you can play the game), if the same or similar scenario occurs again, just show them your referee card!

[davipp]

Hi nevets, I learnt many years ago after an argument regarding a free ball situation to always carry a copy of the official rules in my cue case. IMO you called it correctly. If the striker's attempt comes closer than previous attempts and you consider the degree of difficulty could not produce a better result, than a foul only should be called.
Davipp

[The Statman]

He goes ballistic. His team mates join in. They insist that as a miss was called in the first instance, I have to keep calling it until the ball on is struck. They also insist while they are at it, that at any time if a player fails to hit the ball on it is automatically a miss - effectively enforcing the rule more strictly that for the pros.
Surely this can't be right for players of local league standard!

Nevets, further to your initial query, I have just read this part of your opening post and want to back you up even more.

The opposing team's opinion, that a first Miss means that all further attempts are a Miss until a hit is achieved, is quite clearly a load of rubbish.

Consider this scenario. You are snookered tight behind the yellow. You are trying to play off one cushion and have to judge the side correctly to find a smallish gap between, say, blue and pink which are close together – and then to come off two further cushions before reaching the red. It may be the easiest route available and the last red.

On the first attempt, you misjudge it badly and graze the yellow straight away. Now, no matter how difficult, you would expect a player to manage to at least avoid the ball that the white is laying against, so a Miss is called. On the second attempt, you judge the angle correctly but underhit it by a foot – a Miss would be justified in that case. Now, on the third attempt, you get past the yellow, through between blue and pink, off the second and third cushions and miss the reds by the diameter of a gnat's left testicle.

If the referee called a Miss on that third attempt, his own testicles may encounter a disadvantageous communincation from the player's cue!

This is an extreme example, but suggesting that one attempt is 'Miss-worthy' does not set a precedent for subsequent better attempts – only for subsequent poorer ones.

[nevets]

I'm afraid I've had no joy in trying to improve our league players understanding of the rule. Last week in an away match, my team mate was repeatedly put back in when failing to hit the green, with only the colours remaining, even though he was leaving an easy pot on, and a straight-forward clearance. The opposition player preferred to put him back and keep claiming 4 points until the frame was safe. After he had won he had the cheek to say "It's a terrible rule, isn't it?". It was the most unsporting, cowardly, display I have ever seen.