Moving ball black after pink to win

[wanderer]

Not sure how the forum views resurrecting old threads so I'm quoting from a snippet from a topic that came up a year ago afresh. Sorry to go over old ground but I just couldn't understand why the penalty would be 6 for taking the black with a moving cue-ball and not 7.

And remember, if you need pink for the frame and get it: Do NOT play a show-off shot on the black with the white still moving! That would be a foul on the PINK shot and would give 6 away (7 if the black goes in), and the pink would be re-spotted leaving 13 points still on the table.

Would the relevant rule not be Section 3 Rule 10(b)(i)

"(b) value of the ball on or ball concerned, whichever is higher, by:
(i) striking when any ball is not at rest;"

and hence a penalty of 7 for striking the black with a moving ball?

[mutineer]

I belive that if the white is still moving, you are still on the pink.. The foul is hitting the white two times.
However, if you pot the black, it is 7 points

[nrage]

Yeah, because the white has not stopped, striking it again is not actually a new/the next shot, so the ball on remains the pink. If you pot the black (while on the pink) however, the "ball concerned" is the black and the foul is 7.

Basically, the rules treat the situation you described as the "same as" potting the pink and hitting the white twice with the cue (6 away), or potting the pink (hitting the white twice with the cue) and accidently cannoning the black in as well (7 away).

[Souwester]

I agree with the existing replies, the penalty would be six points, for striking the cue ball twice during the same stroke.

S3 r10(b)(i) was effectively redundant under the old rules, but now, can only apply to an incoming player who plays whilst all balls have not come to rest from the other player's last stroke. Under the old rules if a player did that he was the non-striker, all balls he moves would be replaced, no penalty would be imposed and he'd be warned, in no uncertain terms, not to do it again.

Under the new rules there are clearer definitions of strikers, stroke and turn, including 6(e)

(e) Following the final stroke of the opponent’s turn, if an incoming player plays a stroke/strikes the cue-ball before the balls have come to rest, he shall be penalised as if he were the striker, and his visit to the table shall end.

[The Statman]

I also agree with the replies above. And I think I might recognise the quote that you quoted!

[wanderer]

I also agree with the replies above. And I think I might recognise the quote that you quoted!

Damn you've got a good memory Statman.

Thanks for the replies guys.