Rues question...

[Stevie]

What would the rule be if, after all the reds have gone a player potted say the yellow and as he stood up he fouled a ball with his cuff or whatever, after the foul is called would the yellow be respotted or remain down with play continuing from the green?

[The Statman]

If it is as he stood up, then that is part of the shot on the yellow, so it has to come back up. Foul four.

If it is as he walks around the table, and all the balls have stopped from the yellow shot, then it is the green shot, so the player scores two points for the yellow which stays down and it is a foul on the green.

[Souwester]

The new 2011 official rule book is now more helpful in defining 'striker', 'turn' and 'stroke':

5. Striker and Turn
The person about to play or in play is the striker and remains so until the final stroke, or foul, of his turn is complete and the referee is satisfied that he has finally left the table. If a non-striker comes to the table, out of turn, he shall be considered as the striker for any foul he may commit before leaving the table. When the referee is satisfied that the above conditions have been met, the incoming striker’s turn begins. His turn and his right to play another stroke ends when:
(a) he fails to score from a stroke; or
(b) he commits a foul; or
(c) he requests the opponent to play again after his opponent has committed a foul.

6. Stroke
(a) A stroke is made when the striker strikes the cue-ball with the tip of the cue.
(b) A stroke is fair when no infringement of Rule is made.
(c) A stroke is not completed until:
(i) all balls have come to rest;
(ii) the striker has stood up, in readiness for a succeeding stroke, or leaving the table;
(iii) any equipment being used by the striker has been removed from a hazardous position; and
(iv) the referee has called any score relevant to the stroke.
(d) A stroke may be made directly or indirectly, thus:
(i) a stroke is direct when the cue-ball strikes an object ball without first striking a cushion;
(ii) a stroke is indirect when the cue-ball strikes one or more cushions before striking an object ball.
(e) Following the final stroke of the opponent’s turn, if an incoming player plays a stroke/strikes the cue-ball before the balls have come to rest, he shall be penalised

[cazmac1]

I'm sure I asked a similar question only for a red. If a player fouls when potting the red I believe it shot be replace(although I know this is not the rule) as when potting that red you are taking eight points of the table but only losing four which could put leave your opponent needing a snooker? therefore you have gained an advantage through a foul?

[Stevie]

Thanks for the replys and the quote fom the rule book, it doesn't seem to be clear cut this one does it. I would have thought the foul with the cuff would be totally separate from the potting of the yellow because the yellow was potted 'legally' and niether the white or the yellow were involved in the foul. i.e. the yellow stays down.

As Statman says though, at what point does a player stop being on the yellow shot and start being on the green shot.

[jrc750]

Thanks for the replys and the quote fom the rule book, it doesn't seem to be clear cut this one does it. I would have thought the foul with the cuff would be totally separate from the potting of the yellow because the yellow was potted 'legally' and niether the white or the yellow were involved in the foul. i.e. the yellow stays down.

As Statman says though, at what point does a player stop being on the yellow shot and start being on the green shot.

I think its very clear ! If the foul was committed whilst standing up from the yellow shot, then it is a foul on the yellow, ball re spotted, and foul 4
(c) A stroke is not completed until:
(i) all balls have come to rest;
(ii) the striker has stood up, in readiness for a succeeding stroke, or leaving the table;

[Stevie]

Looking at it, yeah your right! Thats put that one to bed thanks all.

I think its very clear ! If the foul was committed whilst standing up from the yellow shot, then it is a foul on the yellow, ball re spotted, and foul 4
(c) A stroke is not completed until:
(i) all balls have come to rest;
(ii) the striker has stood up, in readiness for a succeeding stroke, or leaving the table;

[the montrealer]

HI Player A has 40 points with two reds and all the colours remaining. Player A intentionally knocks a red off the table this giving player B no chance to win the game as there is not enough points left on the table

Now would like to know if the red that was intentionally knocked off the table can the referee re spot the red.

Maybe someone knows cheers.


Leonard from Canada

[bally969]

yep/ bad situation BUT the red stays out of play I'm afraid.

[Souwester]

I suppose it depends on how the red was knocked off the table, and whether the referee can be certain that it was intentional. If the referee has no doubt that it was intentional then, calling on s4 r1(a) he can award the frame to the opponent. If he is unsure he could still give the player an unofficial warning.

[The Statman]

It is specifically stated in the Rules that a red is not replaced on the table despite the fact that a player might gain advantage from its removal.

[bally969]

re spot yellow

I believe it to be a foul, As the yellow was [ Pocketed ] not potted, as it was a foul, the yellow would then be re spotted

[bally969]

After the reff has caleed the score, you would then be on the green.

[Souwester]

After the reff has caleed the score, you would then be on the green.

Not entirely sure what you mean by this post.

If we're talking about the original scenario, then if the foul on another ball took place as he was standing up after pocketing the yellow, then that will always be a foul on the yellow, regardless of whether the referee has called the score or not. Yellow will be respotted and the next shot will be on the yellow.

As I've said on anotther thread recently, whilst the new rules state that a stroke is not complete until the referee has called any score, the reverse is not necessarilty true and the stroke doesn't automatically end if the referee is somewhat premature in calling the score.

[The Statman]

Not entirely sure what you mean by this post.

If we're talking about the original scenario, then if the foul on another ball took place as he was standing up after pocketing the yellow, then that will always be a foul on the yellow, regardless of whether the referee has called the score or not. Yellow will be respotted and the next shot will be on the yellow.

As I've said on anotther thread recently, whilst the new rules state that a stroke is not complete until the referee has called any score, the reverse is not necessarilty true and the stroke doesn't automatically end if the referee is somewhat premature in calling the score.

Absolutely right. Referees are human and make mistakes.

Imagine if he had called "Two" for the yellow and, rather than the player touching a ball with his cue, the cue-ball came round the table and trickled into a pocket. You cannot say that, because the referee has called the score, the foul cannot be called.