White leaves table - foul?

[steve clarke]

The other night my opponent miscued, causing the white to jump into the air half an inch or so, then hit the intended red.

I maintained this was a foul as the white had left the table, but my opponent reckons the white only leaves the table if it drops on the floor! He would say that wouldn't he...........

Who's right?

Cheers

Steve

[jim evans]

i beleive it depends were it hits the object ball

[Neil Taperell]

Needs to jump over the top of the object ball and if it hits the back of the object ball , it's a foul .

[nrage]

The other night my opponent miscued, causing the white to jump into the air half an inch or so, then hit the intended red.

I maintained this was a foul as the white had left the table, but my opponent reckons the white only leaves the table if it drops on the floor! He would say that wouldn't he...........

Who's right?

Cheers

Steve

He was right. It's a foul if the white leaves the bed of the table never to return (under it's own steam). It's also a foul if the white jumps over a ball to reach the ball 'on' or a ball which could be 'on' meaning if you're shooting a red and it jumps over any ball and hits any red, it's a foul. But, if it strikes the ball on, then jumps over a ball, and ends up on the bed of the table, no foul

[Souwester]

If the cue ball comes to rest other than on the bed of the table then it is a foul... ie if it lands on the floor, in a pocket or on the rail. If it temporarily leaves the table, runs along the rail but lands back on the bed of the table, that is a fair shot.

However, a jump shot is also a foul, and this is how the rule book defines it;

20. Jump Shot
A jump shot is made when the cue-ball passes over any part of an object ball, whether touching it in the process or not, except:
(a) when the cue-ball first strikes one object ball and then jumps over another ball;
(b) when the cue-ball jumps and strikes an object ball, but does not land on the far side of that ball;
(c) when, after striking an object ball lawfully, the cue-ball jumps over that ball after hitting a cushion or another ball.

[SnookerFan]

I'm pretty confident that if it starts on the table and ends on the table it's no foul. It's only a foul if it lands on the floor. I remember this happening in a match once and JP said something along the lines of; "If it flies off the table, hits a member of the crowd in the face, flies back onto the table and hits the correct ball it's no foul if it's no hit the floor."

A bit of an exaggeration, but that anecdote always stayed with me.

[The Statman]

I'm pretty confident that if it starts on the table and ends on the table it's no foul. It's only a foul if it lands on the floor. I remember this happening in a match once and JP said something along the lines of; "If it flies off the table, hits a member of the crowd in the face, flies back onto the table and hits the correct ball it's no foul if it's no hit the floor."

A bit of an exaggeration, but that anecdote always stayed with me.

Yes and I think as referee, I would have to class hitting a spectator and rebounding under "ball moved by other than striker" and consider where it would have landed but for the interference - I would conclude the floor, so it would still be a foul in my eyes.

A bit controversial perhaps, but I envisage a league match taking place in a small sports room which has somthing stupid like trampolines stored against the wall - where a ball could come off the table, rebound off a trampoline and return to the table. If it had happened on a neighbouring table or even another part of the same table, it would not have happened and the foul would have been committed. I don't think you could honestly say it was in the spirit of the rules that the shot be allowed to stand as a fair one.

(And, indeed, this fabled spectator, if quick-thinking and a supporter of that player, might deliberately try to 'bat' the ball with his hand to return into play!)

This is all very far-fetched but I would limit the ball's travel to that made under its own steam.

[steve clarke]

Thank you all for most informative and entertaining replies.

I owe him a pint now...............

Cheers

Steve