rules question

[billozz]

hi guys,
we had a situation tonight at our club and i would like some clarification on the rules please,a player is 7 behind with only black on the table and he is to play, he misses the black. do they play on from that point, or is the black respotted
thanks
Bill

[Camio]

If a player's ahead by 7 and fouls, its respotted and a coin toss. Then next foul or pot ends the frame.

If a player's behind by 7 and fouls, he loses the frame.

The only circumstances where you respot the black are:

-ahead by 7 and pot the black for a tie, thus a respot.
-the player ahead commits a foul on the black and thus, with a tie score, you respot the black with a coin toss.

In any other scenarios, a foul on the black ends the frame. If the score differential is 6 or less, the player committing the foul loses the frame.

If the score differential's 8+ (prior to a foul on the black), the frame ends with the guy in front winning.

[Terry Davidson]

billoz:

If a player is 7 points behind and then misses the black then he has lost the frame as there is only one foul allowed on the final black unless the scores are tied and then the black is re-spotted and you toss a coin with winner getting his choice to either play or allow his opponent to play.

At least that's the way I understood your question.

Terry

[DawRef]

There is a scenario where a tied frame does NOT have a re-spotted black and that is in an aggregate score match. If a frame ends in a tie, then the scores count. It could be that team A are 20 points in front in frame scores in the final frame, but only 13 points in front on aggregate scores. If Team A commit a foul on the final black, then although Team A have won the frame, the aggregate scores are level and hence a re-spotted black. This will be between the two players who contested the final frame.

[choice]

hi guys,
we had a situation tonight at our club and i would like some clarification on the rules please,a player is 7 behind with only black on the table and he is to play, he misses the black. do they play on from that point, or is the black respotted
thanks
Bill

game over

[jrc750]

game over

Well that was a bad choice of highlighting the text lol .... as in that situation the game is not over, as he can pot the black to tie, then force the re-spot

[Souwester]

Well that was a bad choice of highlighting the text lol .... as in that situation the game is not over, as he can pot the black to tie, then force the re-spot

It all depends what the original wording means: when he says he misses the black, does he mean he misses hitting the black completely, or simply that he hits the black and misses the pot? Answer varies accordingly.

[choice]

Well that was a bad choice of highlighting the text lol .... as in that situation the game is not over, as he can pot the black to tie, then force the re-spot

(read) --jrc750-?.he's 7 behind-----------and he is to PLAY? he misses the black..?????so he's 14 behind=loss frame???

[jrc750]

(read) --jrc750-?.he's 7 behind-----------and he is to PLAY? he misses the black..?????so he's 14 behind=loss frame???

Yes that's true BUT you only highlighted this bit "7 behind with only black on the table and he is to play" and then said "game over", that's why i said bad choice of highlighting

[choice]

L.O.L.the question,not written property,(ok no problem)

[Camio]

(read) --jrc750-?.he's 7 behind-----------and he is to PLAY? he misses the black..?????so he's 14 behind=loss frame???

He wouldnt be 14 over. The reason is this: if you're up 3 and fould on the black, you're not 4 behind, the game is over and you lost.

Its much easier to remember the rules if you go from what the rules says: any mistake on the black ends the frame, except in 1 circumstance, which is being ahead by 7 with fouling on the black, which result in a respotted black.

I often see people playing and say "I was 2 in front, I fouled, so you go 5 in front".

The rules actually are written in such a way that the score doesnt matter unless its a 7 score differential.

[Souwester]

He wouldnt be 14 over. The reason is this: if you're up 3 and fould on the black, you're not 4 behind, the game is over and you lost.

Its much easier to remember the rules if you go from what the rules says: any mistake on the black ends the frame, except in 1 circumstance, which is being ahead by 7 with fouling on the black, which result in a respotted black.

I often see people playing and say "I was 2 in front, I fouled, so you go 5 in front".

The rules actually are written in such a way that the score doesnt matter unless its a 7 score differential.

Of course the scores matter. Whoever lawfully pots the black at the end of the frame will have seven points added to their score, and if a player fouls when only the black is left then seven points are added to his opponents score.

You can't just go by the scores that were on the scoreboard before the foul was committed, because if someone was between 0 and 6 ponts in front and then fouls, the scoreboard would need to show that the seven points had been added to the opponent, and giving him more points and therefore winning the frame.

The relevant part os the rules are as follows:

Section 2
1. Frame
A frame of snooker comprises the period of the play from the start (see Section 3 Rule 3(c)), with all the balls set as described in Section 3 Rule 2, each player playing in turn until the frame is completed by:
(a) concession by any player during his turn;
(b) claim by the striker when; Black is the only object ball remaining on the table, aggregate points are not relevant, and there is a difference of more than seven points between the scores in his favour;
(c) the final pot or foul when; Black is the only object ball remaining on the table (see Section 3 Rule 4); or
(d) being awarded by the the referee under Section 3 Rule 14(c) (ii) or Section 4 Rule 2.

Section 3
Rule 1...
(f) The winner of a frame is the player or side:
(i) making the highest score;
(ii) to whom the frame is conceded; or
(iii) to whom it is awarded under Section 3 Rule 14(c) (ii) or Section 4 Rule 2.

4. End of Frame, Game or Match
(a) When Black is the only object ball remaining on the table, the first score or foul ends the frame excepting only if the following conditions both apply:
(i) the scores are then equal; and
(ii) aggregate scores are not relevant.

[Camio]

Of course the scores matter. Whoever lawfully pots the black at the end of the frame will have seven points added to their score, and if a player fouls when only the black is left then seven points are added to his opponents score.

You can't just go by the scores that were on the scoreboard before the foul was committed, because if someone was between 0 and 6 ponts in front and then fouls, the scoreboard would need to show that the seven points had been added to the opponent, and giving him more points and therefore winning the frame.

Obviously, it matters if you're keeping track of the scores.

However, I meant this "it doesnt matter as far as who's of winning or losing the frame", in hope of making it easier for anyone to figure out the outcome of a foul stroke on the black at the end of a game, ie: "any foul on the black ends the frame unless the player committing the foul is 7 points in front, which means a respotted black". Fouling with less than 6 points differential between players means the player fouling loses the frame.

If you're playing a best of 7 with a mate and he's 3 in front and fouls on the black, do you honestly keep track of the score and have to go to the board and add your 7 and then figure out "hey, I won!".

Obviously not, and thats what I meant :P