4 handed snooker

[Pechki]

Why can we not do anything about partners conferring whilst being the striker.
In Bridlington (I have been told) and seen the results of the local committee saying it is ok to do as long as the strikers hand has not touched the table.
I spoke to two people at Northern snooker. One,a player seemed to think we can do nothing about it because he didn't have the gumption to stop it in his recent game.
The other who I was told was someone so important in the game he did not seem inclined to listen to any suggestion. Just kept saying we can't do anything about it.
The rules are clear...we have tradition and we do not want games slowed down as they will be,
Pechki

[Pechki]

Follow up to this message. Saw the committee members in Bridlington on Sun 1st April who said it was not true that they had tried to alter anything and agreed there was no reason to do so. Someone has conned the partners who got beat and they (the Chairperson and Secretary) would look into the circumstances of that match.
However the Hon. Sec felt that as doubles is a team match and as such some discussion should be allowed prior to the striker doing his bit and not having approached the table there shouldn't be a problem.
How you decide if someone has approached the table when we are all stood around and about said table defeats me.
Did he lean forward to have a look before discussing? Was that a slight step forward to get a better view and so on.
I have never thought of doubles as being a team match as Hon Sec seems to do. I've always seen it as two players combining their playing ability to reap the rewards each doing their own thing to the best of their ability and own knowledge of the game.
This thread has brought forward a lot of comments so someone out there should get a grip of the situation and clarify so there can be no doubt as to what constitutes a discussion/approach the table/or any other anomily that may arise with the devious people amongst us.
Petchki (not a junior member, a 73 yr old

[DeanH]

hi pechki
please be assured that "Junior member" is not personal or any offense meant
Welcome to TSF
As previously discussed in another thread on this subject, the matter and defintion of "approaching" was incomplete.
I think it probably comes down to interpretation at the time of the game and the referees decision (if there is one)
Whenever I have played four-hand snooker, not in any league just a friendly match, the amount of discussion never got too out of hand, probably thankfully after reading your scenarios
all the best

[DawRef]

Welcome to the forum. I haven't read the other thread (yet).

Section 3, Rule 17(e):
Partners may confer during a frame but not whilst one is the striker and has approached the table until the break has ended with a non scoring stroke or foul.

So it all comes down to 'approached the table' and the referees interpretation.

As a referee, I tend to go by the fact that once the team's turn has ended, then the other teams conferring must also stop as it is their turn. I make this clear at the start of the match and so far have had no problems. This is just my interpretation of the rule, which I think is fair (and that is what a referee is there for, to ensure fair play).

[DeanH]

thanks for that, I shall keep that in mind
when we used to have doubles matches in my pool league, the discussion would not START until the other team's turn had finished!
Understandable as in pool the situation can usually only be assessed after the last ball has stopped moving!
But in snooker your approach (sorry ) could work well.

[Souwester]

First I must admit that it is donkey's years since I refereed a pairs match!

I suspect I would be a little more lenient than DawRef, and (perhaps because I play World Rules pool), adopt something akin to nthe WR guidance. Note that this isn't specifically in the rules, but is given in the guidance to referees:

In doubles, talking between partners is allowed from the point balls stop moving at the end of a partner’s turn (throughout the opponent’s turn), and until the cue ball is struck at the beginning of the other partners turn. However, only the player whose turn it is, is allowed to touch the table (rule K10).

In my interpretation I'd probably allow conferring until the striker actually touches the table (or equipment at the table).

[DeanH]

yep, that was it, discuss until the player-on touched the table.
Very unfortunate for me one year where my partner had the habit of slapping the table saying "good shot" as the opponent played their last shot! so I was "officially" not allowed to talk to him at all!

[loopy2]

Wouldn't it be unsporting to be talking, ("confering"), while your opponents were at the table ? So sense would say to speak after your opponent has finished and before you take your next shot.

[The Statman]

Wouldn't it be unsporting to be talking, ("confering"), while your opponents were at the table ? So sense would say to speak after your opponent has finished and before you take your next shot.

Yes. But the point of the Rule is to make clear that, once a player has come to the table, his partner may not confer and therefore influence the decisions that the striker makes in shot choice etc.

What you are talking about does of course come under the etiquette of the game, but they don't really have anything material to discuss anyway until it is their turn and they can see the lie of the table.

[Souwester]

Yes. But the point of the Rule is to make clear that, once a player has come to the table, his partner may not confer and therefore influence the decisions that the striker makes in shot choice etc.

What you are talking about does of course come under the etiquette of the game, but they don't really have anything material to discuss anyway until it is their turn and they can see the lie of the table.

Indeed it is etiquette, but it seems most players don't know this aspect of etiquette!

[HemiRR]

We play a modified 'confer' rule in our doubles league - allowed until first shot it taken. I played in a doubles tourney and the way the committee instructed the players that basically once you got up out of your chair or took a step towards the table you had approached and no discussion was allowed . This seemed extreme to me -doubles is a team game after all. If it looked like a tough situation, my solution was to have the non striker get up and have a look at the situation and then go back and tell the striker what he thought, who would then go look after business. I was not popular but the committee didn't rule that we were in violation. This was subseqently changed for the next tourney to allow discussion until the striker actually started his approach to his first shot not just the table.