Can my opponent call a "Miss"?

[Gwynston]

Can my opponent call a "Miss"?

In a local club handicap knockout match recently, I was snookered behind a baulk colour. All the reds were down the other end and I made a proper attempt to hit them, but missed and the white finished up near the blue spot. The reds were somewhat spread but there was no straightforward pot left on, although I hadn't played in such a way to leave it safe. It was a genuine attempt - it just so happened that none of the reds would pot from most positions.

My opponent took at look at what was left and propmtly picked up the white and went to place it back in baulk! I quickly asked, "What - are you calling a 'Miss' then?". And he replied, "Well you did miss it..."

I pointed out that it's only a "miss" if it's deemed that I hadn't made a decent attempt to hit a red. So he shrugged and put the white back where it had finished and asked me to just play again.

To be fair, I don't think he quite understood the rules and I guess he thought that I, having fouled attempting the escape, could be either asked to play again from where they finished or from the original position.

Anyway, am I right in saying an opponent can't call a miss? Surely you need an impartial referee to decide if a good enough attempt had been made? And at lowly club level, surely calling a miss is a bit much anyway?

e.g. In another match, a more knowledgable opponent called a miss on himself after a rather poor escape attempt left everything safe, but I refused to take it and just played what I was left with, saying "Don't be silly, we're not pros here and can't always be expected to get out of snookers".

Is there an official stance on this?

[DeanH]

Anyway, am I right in saying an opponent can't call a miss? Surely you need an impartial referee to decide if a good enough attempt had been made? And at lowly club level, surely calling a miss is a bit much anyway?

At club level, it is common practise that the non-striker acts as referee, so yes the opponent can and should call all fouls; as well as calling the break, help with a rest, etc. Maybe the tournament organisers either should have arranged a referee or informed all players of how they expect the matches to be adjudicated.
Specifically about calling a Miss, maybe you should ask the tournament organisers as to their stance on the rule, or that they should have informed all players at the start of their stance on this rule. You are correct that the World Snooker rules deem that a striker shall play the shot to the best of their ability, hence you hear it a lot with the professionals as they are deemed to have the ability to hit the ball on.

and promptly picked up the white

This was wrong, he should have said something first, either a call of "Foul and Miss" or just "do you think that is a Miss?", then at least you both can discuss it before the cue ball was moved.

Is there an official stance on this?

The official stance would be as per the World Snooker Rules. But unofficial/local/club stance can be different. I often ask my opponent before playing how they wish to handle the Miss rule, and go from there. When I am at my local with my regular knock-about partners, we tend not to do the Miss – in respect that we do not replace the balls (near impossible most of the time ) or three mis-strikes and out - but we do the usual options of i) asking the offender to play from where the cue ball is, ii) striker can play from where the cue ball is, etc.

[Neil Taperell]

Should have confirmed if you were playing the miss rule before the match started .

We don't play it in our League but we do in our Inter League matches .

[Gwynston]

Thanks DeanH. None of that conflicts with how I understood it. You're spot on that he shouldn't have picked up the white without saying anything anyway!

Perhaps I should ask the organisers, as it's a very casual weekly tournament, but the miss rule hasn't explicitly been made clear. I certainly would prefer if it was not included - partly because it's impossible for your opponent (in their temporary capacity as "ref" during your shot) to be completely impartial, and it's impractical to have to try to replace ball positions anyway - but mostly because it's a handicap tournament with wildly differing ability levels.

Players range from high break builders to beginners who rarely get more than a couple of colours during a frame, with associated handicaps to try to make a level playing field. But very inexperienced players can't be judged the same way on their snooker escapes, which makes interpretation even more difficult.

I suspect that younger players see it called all the time on TV and just think it's part of the game. (e.g. Just last night I overheard a discussion on a neighbouring table where one player was trying to call a miss on his opponent, but had to have it explained that you can't do so when at the snookers required stage.) But 15 years ago when I used to play more regularly in much higher-standard club leagues, no-one would even consider calling a miss.

Anyway, I feel you really need an impartial ref to call it properly. Certainly, the experience I described led to a rather frosty remainder of the match - albeit with me getting soundly beaten as my opponent was on a 25 handicap for some reason, even though he was at a similar level to myself, while I was on scratch! In the end he knocked in two 20-odd breaks on top of his 25 start, and I conceded with 3 reds left...

[wildJONESEYE]

a oponent acts as ref yes however how can he be objective in regards to the miss rule in my opinion unless theres a indipendant person acting as ref then playing to the miss rule is wrong because its a judgement call and not a matter of fact.

[damienlch]

...My opponent took at look at what was left and propmtly picked up the white and went to place it back in baulk! I quickly asked, "What - are you calling a 'Miss' then?". And he replied, "Well you did miss it..."

That's just plain rude!! He wants a smack in the mouth.

[ADR147]

That's just plain rude!! He wants a smack in the mouth.

yep that would be my reaction.

[Souwester]

The official rules, by which the game should be played (unless there is any instruction to the contrary), provide for Foul and a Miss to be called if the referee (the non-striker where there is no third party officiating) believes that the striker has not made a good enough attempt at hitting a ball on.

In social games, or where there is no official referee, then it is common practice for the non-striker to ask "are you happy that's a Miss?" or somesuch. It is unusual to strictly apply the rule without any reference to the striker. Yes, sometimes 'heated discussions' can ensue, but most times the calls are only made when there was an obviously poor attempt at hitting the object ball.

There is always a case that in handicap competitions the stiker's handicap reflects his overall ability and performance, and, therefore, the Miss rule should be applied equally strictly to all of the players. The argument has some merit, but I'm not entirely convinced!

[pottingpinks]

Theres no miss rule in our league, though some higher level amateur leagues/competitions do use it, quite often the top division of a league will play the miss rule while the lower leagues don't.

In pro snooker the advantages of narrowly missing and leaving a ball safe outweigh leaving an easy pot on so you can see why practically every failed snooker escape is replaced, as pros are in effect deemed capable of being able to hit the ball most times if they go the easiest route.

In amateur snooker, the scenario above clearly doesn't apply for the majority of the time, and I would say the amount of points you can gain from the application of the rule is disproportionate to the game as a whole in lower levels. I played in a county event recently and, from the 3-miss rule, I must have gained about 40 points in fouls, hardly seemed to pot too many balls yet still won the frame comfortably, which was a very odd feeling.

Especially when sometimes the snooker you have obtained is via a fluke (probably mostly in may case lol).

But the administrators of your league will give you guidance as to their interpretation of the miss rule I would have thought.

[damienlch]

Perhaps lesser skilled players can play with a limited number of misses called per foul. Or after 3 missed attempts, the opponent can have ball-in-hand in the D. Quite a few permutations to the foul and miss rule can be made to suit the level of play. That may make it less harsh and eliminate ambiguity over whether the striker played to his best ability and what not.

I do play limited miss call with my mates and at our level, giving away 3 consecutive fouls is a BIG deal...

[damienlch]

...I must have gained about 40 points in fouls, hardly seemed to pot too many balls yet still won the frame comfortably, which was a very odd feeling.

Especially when sometimes the snooker you have obtained is via a fluke (probably mostly in may case lol)...

I think we posted at the same time.

My sentiments exactly...

[cuemick147]

hi when i,m playing at my local we use a rule we made up. its a replay rule, you can ask to reply the shot but no points will be given unless you foul again. you can play the shot as many times as your appoinant wants but only the last shot counts. only one penalty can be given and most times after a few attempts you can get out of the snooker. this way no one wins a frame from 1snooker and it gives more choice to the player who played or fluked the snooker. your appoinant can decide to play his shot even if you have still failed to hit the ball, its his choice and if he wants can take his foul points and play from where your last shot finished. its bit like the miss rule but not as harsh on less exeperanced players. the miss rule can sometimes spoil a game...... dont forget only 1foul-points can be given so max 7 points is all that can be won or lost from a snooker but both players can learn from replaying the shot....it works for us...........

[damienlch]

That's a clever variant Cuemick147... it also allows players to learn to play the angles during match conditions. Good stuff.

[The Statman]

hi when i,m playing at my local we use a rule we made up. its a replay rule, you can ask to reply the shot but no points will be given unless you foul again. you can play the shot as many times as your appoinant wants but only the last shot counts. only one penalty can be given and most times after a few attempts you can get out of the snooker. this way no one wins a frame from 1snooker and it gives more choice to the player who played or fluked the snooker. your appoinant can decide to play his shot even if you have still failed to hit the ball, its his choice and if he wants can take his foul points and play from where your last shot finished. its bit like the miss rule but not as harsh on less exeperanced players. the miss rule can sometimes spoil a game...... dont forget only 1foul-points can be given so max 7 points is all that can be won or lost from a snooker but both players can learn from replaying the shot....it works for us...........

I like it too and I mentioned it with some folks at Sheffield. I suggested, at any level, that the balls could be replaced OR you can have the penalty points, but not both.

This also removes the subjectivity of the Miss call because all failures to hit could then be called without the opinion of the referee coming into it.

If it is deemed too loose a penalty at pro level, then they could maybe make it after 3 (or however many) attempts, you can have the replacement or the points, but not both.

I certainly think there is some merit in trialling it.

The other difference between pro and low level snooker is that a professional will avoid leaving an opening at all costs, because his opponent will be very capable of clearing up. Whereas, you and I having a knock down the local club, not only are we less proficient at getting out of snookers, we are at the same time less concerned about what we leave because the other player is probably not going to make more than about 20 points from any leave.

[DeanH]

hi when i,m playing at my local we use a rule we made up. its a replay rule, you can ask to reply the shot but no points will be given unless you foul again. you can play the shot as many times as your appoinant wants but only the last shot counts. only one penalty can be given and most times after a few attempts you can get out of the snooker. this way no one wins a frame from 1snooker and it gives more choice to the player who played or fluked the snooker. your appoinant can decide to play his shot even if you have still failed to hit the ball, its his choice and if he wants can take his foul points and play from where your last shot finished. its bit like the miss rule but not as harsh on less exeperanced players. the miss rule can sometimes spoil a game...... dont forget only 1foul-points can be given so max 7 points is all that can be won or lost from a snooker but both players can learn from replaying the shot....it works for us...........

I like it too and I mentioned it with some folks at Sheffield. I suggested, at any level, that the balls could be replaced OR you can have the penalty points, but not both.
This also removes the subjectivity of the Miss call because all failures to hit could then be called without the opinion of the referee coming into it.
If it is deemed too loose a penalty at pro level, then they could maybe make it after 3 (or however many) attempts, you can have the replacement or the points, but not both.
I certainly think there is some merit in trialling it.
The other difference between pro and low level snooker is that a professional will avoid leaving an opening at all costs, because his opponent will be very capable of clearing up. Whereas, you and I having a knock down the local club, not only are we less proficient at getting out of snookers, we are at the same time less concerned about what we leave because the other player is probably not going to make more than about 20 points from any leave.

A good option, next time I am down the club I shall discuss it with the guys.
As you say, Statman, if the opinion of the ref is no longer required, hopefully there will be no more "heated discussions" whether the attempt was deemed good enough, etc