world championships 2012 - tight pockets??

[sunny3909]

See at 9.08 sec in this video how the balls drops.
Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n-OE...re=context-gfa

[LittleMissAlexa]

See at 9.08 sec in this video how the balls drops.
Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n-OE...re=context-gfa

it was the cling to the cushion it came bk nothing to do with pocket size

[The Statman]

It was a bizarre championship where balls along the cushion were concerned. Quite a few dropped when you would have expected them to miss (mainly deadweight, of course) but some that failed to drop when they looked a certainty.

One Peter Ebdon shot springs to mind, he played a deadweight, dead straight red along the top cushion, which looked for all the world to have been perfectly good. But it veered into the cushion about a foot from the pocket and then rebounded as if it had been played into the cushion at an angle.

[vmax4steve]

it was the cling to the cushion it came bk nothing to do with pocket size

Wrong.
Balls only cling to the top cushion due to the direction of the nap of the cloth. The pockets are just too big and make players look better than they are. There is not a table in our league where that red that Carter played would have dropped even at dead pocket weight.
The Star tables were first used in 2010 and those sort of shots were staying out all the time and the century break total was only 60 for the championship compared to the previous years 80+. Later that year in the UK championship they were dropping in again.
Jamie Jones; 13 century breaks for the season leading up to the WSC and then 7 in the championship itself, speaks volumes.

[Neil Taperell]

Hi Mate ,

I see what you are saying and a very vallied point about the breaks . But i play on the Star table that was used at 2011 World's and the pockets are tight . Tighter than any league club table that we play on through the season .

Agreed that some balls went in that you normally would not expect , but is that down to how new the cloth in some instances ?

[vmax4steve]

Hi Mate ,

I see what you are saying and a very vallied point about the breaks . But i play on the Star table that was used at 2011 World's and the pockets are tight . Tighter than any league club table that we play on through the season .

Agreed that some balls went in that you normally would not expect , but is that down to how new the cloth in some instances ?

That's as maybe but was the table fitted using the WPBSA pocket templates or the IBSF templates ??
We have heard from Terry elsewhere on this forum that the WPBSA and IBSF templates are different and that in fact amateurs cannot get the WPBSA templates which are only supplied for pro tournaments.

[Neil Taperell]

The table was fitted by World Snooker . But i don't know what templates were used . David Gray , Tony Drago and Marco Fu practice on this table , so i assume that it is close to Tournament spec .

[lk8]

It was a bizarre championship where balls along the cushion were concerned. Quite a few dropped when you would have expected them to miss (mainly deadweight, of course) but some that failed to drop when they looked a certainty.

One Peter Ebdon shot springs to mind, he played a deadweight, dead straight red along the top cushion, which looked for all the world to have been perfectly good. But it veered into the cushion about a foot from the pocket and then rebounded as if it had been played into the cushion at an angle.

when you said top cushion did you mean the black cushion or the baulk cushion? I saw a lot of shot rolling off when playing down parallel the black cushion, some going in, and some missing the pot as it swerves off, either something to do with the level or the slate is not level, but the pockets were generous when the cloth was new, then became normal again after it settled down..

[LittleMissAlexa]

when you said top cushion did you mean the black cushion or the baulk cushion? I saw a lot of shot rolling off when playing down parallel the black cushion, some going in, and some missing the pot as it swerves off, either something to do with the level or the slate is not level, but the pockets were generous when the cloth was new, then became normal again after it settled down..

top cushion is the black cushion hence in pool some people say only up the table when balls in hand

[throtts]

My Star TC is 9 week old ( fitted by WSS ) and there is no way Carters red would have dropped on mine. If I play a ball along a cushion at any sort of fast pace then the object ball simply will not drop if its not pin point accurate, it has to be cue''d very sweetly too. In fact any pot between the black spot and the black cushion has to be accurate..A typical Star TC is very tight, trust me..

[vmax4steve]

My Star TC is 9 week old ( fitted by WSS ) and there is no way Carters red would have dropped on mine. If I play a ball along a cushion at any sort of fast pace then the object ball simply will not drop if its not pin point accurate, it has to be cue''d very sweetly too. In fact any pot between the black spot and the black cushion has to be accurate..A typical Star TC is very tight, trust me..

Then it quite clearly has not been fitted using WPBSA pocket templates that are used in pro tournaments. Then again, are the pockets for the BBC tv tournaments using templates that are bigger again in order to lull the public into believing this century break, best standard ever bullsh*t the BBC are constantly preaching.
The pundits always claim that it is the new cloth that allows balls like Carter's red to drop in, but in my experience it is the new nap on the cloth that makes the pocket jaws a little more accomodating and seeing as the cloths used by the pros have a very fine nap then I don't believe this explanation.
And seeing as those sort of shots were not dropping in the WSC in 2010, the first year of the Star tables, then I can only assume that I am being lied to.

[Neil Taperell]

Then it quite clearly has not been fitted using WPBSA pocket templates that are used in pro tournaments. Then again, are the pockets for the BBC tv tournaments using templates that are bigger again in order to lull the public into believing this century break, best standard ever bullsh*t the BBC are constantly preaching.
The pundits always claim that it is the new cloth that allows balls like Carter's red to drop in, but in my experience it is the new nap on the cloth that makes the pocket jaws a little more accomodating and seeing as the cloths used by the pros have a very fine nap then I don't believe this explanation.
And seeing as those sort of shots were not dropping in the WSC in 2010, the first year of the Star tables, then I can only assume that I am being lied to.

I played on the Star after a new cloth had just been fitted and it was more accommodating for sure . Really quite a noticeable difference .

[nrage]

And seeing as those sort of shots were not dropping in the WSC in 2010, the first year of the Star tables, then I can only assume that I am being lied to.

My memory not good enough to recall whether they were or were not dropping in 2010, so I went looking for some evidence..

The closest match I could find is this one: @ approx 4:26
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXjFagrA2CQ

Comparing it to Ali's red: @ approx 9:07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n-OE3-RURA

It seems to me that they both:
- hit the side cushion at the same distance from the pocket
- are traveling at about the same speed
- bobble twice, and drop

From that I would say the cloth/conditions/reaction of the tables were pretty much identical.

[pottr]

The television tables are much tighter than your average club table.

The reason the shots go in from the pros that look like they'd miss for us is for reason Throtts half mentioned:

it has to be cue''d very sweetly too

The top players, simply put hit the white ball better than we can dream of.

The myth that the pro tables are set up to make them look good is little more than a conspiracy theory of the disgruntled.

If Throtts can provide video evidence on his Star table to the contrary, I'm all ears... and eyes I suppose?

[lk8]

top cushion is the black cushion hence in pool some people say only up the table when balls in hand

yes we understand that, except that in these TV ages, some commentator as not to confuse the spectators that doesn't know the ins and outs of the technical terms in the traditional game of Snooker, mostly refer them based on the orientation of the camera angles, thus the black cushion becomes the bottom cushion and the baulk cushion becomes the top cushion, that's why it's something we wanted to get clear here before we further the discussion if you know what I mean


and yeah any new cloths that are less than 1-2 days old are just amazing, you would not believe shots that could go in when they were missed by a mile, and if you take a look at videos of OSullivan vs Carter last session, you'll see many shots that didn't drop when they would've easily went in the day before...

and yes, also when you hit the white sweetly and get the required reaction from the white without transferring the pace to the object ball you'll be amazed at how many more balls you pot