Ref says no.......

[coomsey76]

I've just came across this clip on you tube of Alan Chamberlain refusing to clean the red ball for Mark Selby.....

I'd never seen this happen before.....

Why did Alan Chamberlain refuse to clean the red??

[hotpot]

Dunno why but he,s out of order imo .

[cazmac1]

I remember that and agreed with his decision. I don't think there was a kick before the shot and there was no mark on the ball so he rightly refused.

[coomsey76]

But you can hear the ref saying the mark is on the other side of the ball.... but surely its up to the player if he wants the ball cleaned.

[cazmac1]

this was not the same one I saw, should have watched the vid first lo. still we need more forceful ref's like this. made no difference to the shot on and is typical mark selby

[cazmac1]

nothing gained nothing lost, just being a pratt and the ref could see this. By not cleaning the white did it make any difference?
I have seen many a player even after a kick not bother to ask the ref to clean the white.
Bit like higgins picking the white up after every frame and licking it, just a habit and in the end the ref stopped him. more snooker less bull IMO.

[Inoffthered]

nothing gained nothing lost, just being a pratt and the ref could see this. By not cleaning the white did it make any difference?
I have seen many a player even after a kick not bother to ask the ref to clean the white.
Bit like higgins picking the white up after every frame and licking it, just a habit and in the end the ref stopped him. more snooker less bull IMO.

From my own exp. it is Mr Chamberlain that's had his moments unfortunately.

[hotpot]

A player has every right to have a ball cleaned especially consideing the amount of kicks and whats at stake , pheraps if the kicks were once in a blue moon but they happen far too often .

[coomsey76]

Totally agree....

Not so much in the clip above but it could have a bit of a negative affect on your next shot when you have to hit that ball that the ref has refused to clean.

[DandyA]

interesting ... I think we need the TSF referees to comment here ... presumably, it's in the rules that players can request balls to be cleaned?

Souwester and others, where are you? we need you!

[ferret]

There was a discussion o here at the tine of this happening, basically there was sone dirt on the ball and when Mark asked Alan to clean it the decision was made not to clean the ball because where the dirt was would not of effected Mark's shot but the process of cleaning the ball itself could of lead to the ball not being put back exactly as it was and giving Mark a easier shot on what was pretty much a snooker.

Yes it is taking the rules to the extreme but a fair call when both players on 11 frames with only 13 needed to win the match.

[Souwester]

Ref says no.......

Hmmm. I'm away from home (at SWSA) and can't access the clip. However, the rules (in section 3) state that a ball may only be cleaned by a referee on reasonable request by the striker, but s4 states that the referee *shall* clean any ball on reasonable request from a striker.

Therefore, to refuse must mean that the referee thinks it is an unreasonable request. This could be for a number of reasons, eg: a ball is not integral to the stroke and is awkwardly placed , say behind another ball or balls , making it awkward to access.

It could also be the case that by removing a ball for cleaning could give the striker a clearer view of the position of other balls... Like is another ball potable. There has even been an unresolved debate about what happens should a player play a stroke whilst a ball on is temporarily replaced by a ball marker during cleaning.

To simply refuse to clean a ball because it is not integral to the stroke is quite a weak argument in my opinion.

[ferret]

Hmmm. I'm away from home (at SWSA) and can't access the clip.

You should be able to watch the youtube video on the iOS app!

Here is a screen shot of the ball positions, the red arrow pointing at the object ball.
ball-positions.jpg

[arbitrage]

apart from blatant time-wasting, mark selby uses this tactic all the time to see if he can get the ball in question moved slightly to his advantage. alan chamberlain is 100% correct to have considered this an unreasonable request.

[vmax4steve]

I remember this and was in agreement with Chamberlain at the time. Selby was deliberately slowing down the game to try and break Higgins concentration, as is his wont, and Chamberlain knew it and put a stop to it.
With the proliferation of kicks with these phenolic resin balls it could be deemed reasonable to have both the cue ball and object ball cleaned before every shot, but where would that leave us.

Alex Higgins took to licking the cue ball after every frame to clean it during the period when the cloths were being shaved down to make them faster, leaving little bits of nap all over the table being picked up on the balls causing kicks all the time. He was told to stop it because of hygiene reasons and then cleaned the cue ball with a damp cloth and a dry towel. He also had the cue ball cleaned relentlessly by the referee during this period and complained to the snooker authorities about the problem, it wasn't just a habit and it wasn't gamesmanship either.