Ref says no.......

[hotpot]

The match was tied at 11-11 and the pressure was immense so it may have been that Mark was asking for it to be cleaned whilst composing himself for the tricky shot he was faced with . I dont recall him making a habbit of this more than any other player . Ref was out of order . Nothing to do with gamesmaship imo .

[The Statman]

It was one of those - could have been seen as gamesmanship and Chamberlain decided, because the dirt was on the 'wrong' side of the red and Selby would not be injecting any pace into the red, that it was an unnecessary request.

He could only partly see the ball on so the referee did not want to take the chance of giving Selby more of the red to hit (or, indeed, it could have gone the other way and left him with less of the red to see. If Selby had queried this after the cleaning, there would be no way of knowing.)

In the end, Chamberlain made a call which is difficult to criticise but at the same time difficult to 100% defend.

[ste bed]

apart from blatant time-wasting, mark selby uses this tactic all the time to see if he can get the ball in question moved slightly to his advantage. alan chamberlain is 100% correct to have considered this an unreasonable request.

of course it was he was facing a difficult shot and was just seeing if he could get the ball slightly moved to his advantage.

[arbitrage]

of course it was he was facing a difficult shot and was just seeing if he could get the ball slightly moved to his advantage.

yes, and alan gave him a 'don't try to pull the wool over my eyes, be a good boy' look, as a boarding school headmaster would do to an errant pupil.

[Particle Physics]

yes, and alan gave him a 'don't try to pull the wool over my eyes, be a good boy' look, as a boarding school headmaster would do to an errant pupil.

Selby, a gamesman? Any other examples of him pulling stunts? Is he Ebdon's apprentice? lol

[buddfridgeman]

I dont see how selby could be sure of getting an advantage as if the red was replaced in the wrong place its only a 50% chance it would be better for him, and I dont see how the ref can refuse to clean the red as selby could have played off a cushion hitting the side of the red with chaulk on it, as far as I am aware it is still up to the player to choose his or her choice of shot and not to be second guessed by a ref.. so for me wrong decission..

[nrage]

apart from blatant time-wasting, mark selby uses this tactic all the time to see if he can get the ball in question moved slightly to his advantage. alan chamberlain is 100% correct to have considered this an unreasonable request.

of course it was he was facing a difficult shot and was just seeing if he could get the ball slightly moved to his advantage.

yes, and alan gave him a 'don't try to pull the wool over my eyes, be a good boy' look, as a boarding school headmaster would do to an errant pupil.

I find these opinions very hard to believe. From what I've seen or heard of Mark Selby he is an honest and gracious player who doesn't need to resort to the sorts of tactics described here.

I suspect all he wanted in this instance was some time to think, or perhaps the mark on the ball was playing on his mind, sometimes something that wont actually have any physical effect can have a mental effect.

Besides which, I am certain Alan Chamberlain has the ability to clean and replace a ball in exactly the same position 99 times out of 100.

[sprogbasket]

I have not been able to hear the audio on this clip - is it possible mark initially thought there was a mark on the red and was , for example, advised that it was not a mark it had merely been a trick of the light /reflection as Selby had been walking round the table ?

What constitutes a "reasonable request?"...more often than not such requests relate to marks /chalk etc on the ball or taking a shot immediately following a "kick"....just asking for a ball to be cleaned however polite would not in my opinion constitute a reasonable request.

[Souwester]

OK, I've seen the clip.

IMHO I doubt Mark was trying to pull a fast one, and probably automatically asked for the ball to be cleaned when he saw a mark (which Chamberlain appears to acknowledge, saying it was on the other side of the ball and not affecting the shot, if I hear correctly). I don't, therefore, think the request was unreasonable.

If the request isn't unreasonable, is it automatically reasonable (and therefore must be acted upon by the referee, per the rules)? I think the position of the ball was crucial, and any movement (and there is always scope for some very small movement when a ball is cleaned and replaced) could have made the difference between it being snookered or not. I think Chamberlain's refusal was a reasonable response in the circumstances.

[hotpot]

OK, I've seen the clip.

IMHO I doubt Mark was trying to pull a fast one, and probably automatically asked for the ball to be cleaned when he saw a mark (which Chamberlain appears to acknowledge, saying it was on the other side of the ball and not affecting the shot, if I hear correctly). I don't, therefore, think the request was unreasonable.

If the request isn't unreasonable, is it automatically reasonable (and therefore must be acted upon by the referee, per the rules)? I think the position of the ball was crucial, and any movement (and there is always scope for some very small movement when a ball is cleaned and replaced) could have made the difference between it being snookered or not. I think Chamberlain's refusal was a reasonable response in the circumstances.

i totally respect your opinions and your views but come on think how many times in the game have we seen refs refusing to clean a white , no matter for what reasons or the circunstances , the fact that the reef acknowlodged there was a mark on the white was good enough reason to have it cleaned . If it was a case of hmm we may replace the ball in the slightly mm unperfect then a lot of shots would be refused to be cleaned but they ar,nt . Chamberlain just had a momnt when his uthority got the better of him .

[nrage]

Chamberlain is a professional referee .. surely he can clean and replace a ball in the exact same position using a ball guide, especially if it's not crowded by other balls as in this case.

[renniwevarb]

Just side-tracking a little, has anyone actually tried using a ball marker and doing what the referees do?

I have a plastic ball marker given to me by Robin Cook when I got a cue made by him. Tried to use it and discovered that it was quite a difficult operation to carry out. Either I moved the ball in question a little when I'm trying to hold it still while placing the marker, or when moving the marker I some how move the ball.

After trying this out I appreciated the professional referee's work a little more. You really need a surgeon's hand to do this with precision. Else I actually agree that somehow after marking and cleaning the ball and replacing it, it is never 100% back to it's original position.

[bricktip]

Just side-tracking a little, has anyone actually tried using a ball marker and doing what the referees do?

I have a plastic ball marker given to me by Robin Cook when I got a cue made by him. Tried to use it and discovered that it was quite a difficult operation to carry out. Either I moved the ball in question a little when I'm trying to hold it still while placing the marker, or when moving the marker I some how move the ball.

After trying this out I appreciated the professional referee's work a little more. You really need a surgeon's hand to do this with precision. Else I actually agree that somehow after marking and cleaning the ball and replacing it, it is never 100% back to it's original position.

Yes, i have one of those plastic ones as well and i agree it's easy to move the balls. I suspect the pro's use a heavier ball marker.

[screw-back]

About two years ago, markers were produced which were exactly like the one Eirian Williams uses. It looks now like more pro refs are using that same one.

[The Statman]

Yes, there is scope for some movement.

One way to minimise this, is to have position the marker in line with the cue-ball - so that any movement will be in the same direct line that the player would have. This still doesn't totally eradicate it but it lessens the impact it would have.

I have two of the black plastic ball markers, which have two hollow columns which I have filled with blue-tack, just to make them that little bit heavier.