A foul break question.

[Souwester]

At club/league level, I have known players who have miscued on the break-off shot, not hit another ball and expect to be able to try again (without penalty), and in many cases the opponent knows no better and allows that to happen.

[nrage]

At club/league level, I have known players who have miscued on the break-off shot, not hit another ball and expect to be able to try again (without penalty), and in many cases the opponent knows no better and allows that to happen.

Yeah, it's funny that. I guess it's sort of seen as an accident that doesn't affect the frame so "let's just ignore it as if it didn't happen and carry on" is reasonably acceptable. But a similar accident mid-frame would seldom be ignored under the same circumstances.

[tommygunner1309]

Yes so many people play the game without knowing the rules. I was watching a league match. Player one was at the table with only black remaining and 11 points ahead. He went for a cut in the middle pocket and missed the ball completely. As a ref knows that is end of frame and player 1 wins. lol They carried on playing and player 2 potted the black and claimed the win. As a bystander I could not say anything, but I did tell the captains afterwards - wish I had had a camera - the blank look on their faces was classic

[wanderer]

Yes so many people play the game without knowing the rules. I was watching a league match. Player one was at the table with only black remaining and 11 points ahead. He went for a cut in the middle pocket and missed the ball completely. As a ref knows that is end of frame and player 1 wins. lol They carried on playing and player 2 potted the black and claimed the win. As a bystander I could not say anything, but I did tell the captains afterwards - wish I had had a camera - the blank look on their faces was classic

Tommy,

The ref should have known that the frame was ended long before the attempted cut into the middle pocket. At 11 points in front with only black ball remaining the frame was over anyway, since his opponent can't possibly score more than 7 points before the end of the frame.

[tommygunner1309]

Yeh thats true. It just reinforces my point that people playing don't know the rules. The ref was just a team member and not qualified but I think if you are going to play a game, you should at least know the rules that govern it

[mooneyy]

I don't think that's exactly true.... (not so sure though)

If I'm let's say eight points ahead with only the black on the table, the frame is over if I call it. However, I can always decide on playing the black. And if I do so, the frame continues normally.

[andy carson]

Tommy,

The ref should have known that the frame was ended long before the attempted cut into the middle pocket. At 11 points in front with only black ball remaining the frame was over anyway, since his opponent can't possibly score more than 7 points before the end of the frame.

not entirely true, if aggregate scores come into it at the end as well, then you would carry on til all balls potted or foul on the final black.

[tommygunner1309]

I don't think that's exactly true.... (not so sure though)

If I'm let's say eight points ahead with only the black on the table, the frame is over if I call it. However, I can always decide on playing the black. And if I do so, the frame continues normally.

Wrong mooneyy. I am a qualified referee and here is the rule for you to peruse.

S4 (a) When Black is the only object ball remaining on the table, [B]the first score or foul ends the frame excepting only if the following conditions both apply[B]
(i) the scores are then equal: and
(ii)aggregate scores are not relevant

ie Player 1 is 13 clear so the foul on the black ends the frame as per the rule above
if player 2 is only 7 points behind when the foul is committed the frame ends and the black is respotted as the scores are now equal. One thing that never never ever never happens is that the frame continues as normal

[tommygunner1309]

I am of course referring to a normal frame of snooker - ie aggregate scores are not relevant

[tommygunner1309]

Here is another situation which causes confusion. At the end of a frame, the scores are level. The referee respots the black and player one wins the toss and gently rolls up to the black pushing it onto the top cushion with the white below it. Player two, not wanting to take a risk gently taps into the black leaving it in the same position. This goes on for another 3 or 4 shots and it is obvious that this will continue for some time, so the referee offers both players a restart and they both agree. What is the correct thing for the referee to do:
(1) Re spot the black only - or
(2) Re rack all the balls and start the frame again.

[mooneyy]

sorry... my English

I think I expressed myself a bit confusing.

Let's say I pot the pink and go 8 points ahead. Now I have two choices:

1: I call the frame without playing the black -> I win
2: I play the black -> It doesn't matter whether I commit a foul or not -> I win

What I was trying to say is: Just because I'm more than 7 points ahead with only the black ball remaining, that doesn't mean that the frame is automatically over. I can still play the black if I want. Of course the frame is over after my attempt on this black, no matter what.

[tommygunner1309]

Oh right - Yes Mooneyy that is correct. You may attempt the shot on the black if you so wish, and as you say, after that shot the frame ends as long as you are more than 7 points clear. I misunderstood what you meant in your first post

[mooneyy]

Yes that sometimes happens... I'm Swiss, you see.

As for the respotted black I'm totally unsure. Never thought about it but by the definition of a re-rack, I'd say the whole frame would have to be played again.

[tommygunner1309]

Yes that sometimes happens... I'm Swiss, you see.

As for the respotted black I'm totally unsure. Never thought about it but by the definition of a re-rack, I'd say the whole frame would have to be played again.

Yes Mooneyy that is correct. Strange as it may seem the frame is restarted. I got this wrong in my mock exam for referee and glad I did as it really stuck in my head when the time came.
BTW how is snooker in beautiful Switzerland? Is it becoming popular?

[mooneyy]

Well... Snooker and Switzerland. They both begin with an S and that's about it unfortunately. There are some snooker clubs (commercial and/or private) and pool halls with snooker tables here and there, but nothing worth mentioning really.

A common question I come about when being asked about my hobbies is: "Snooker... What is snooker?". There are parts of Switzerland where it's more "known" (popular would be a little exaggerated). But even in those parts snooker's not where I'd like it to be.

Oh and prices... Would you fancy paying up to 20£ for one hour? Problem is that most pool hall operaters would argue that they threw out two pool tables to make room for one of those huge snooker tables. So someone has to pay for it. That's about how popular snooker is around here. Pity.