Snooker and bodybuilding/weight training...

[SouthPaw]

This is a topic of debate that has gone through my mind countless times.
I'm really trying to figure out if my weight training should be continued. I see some twitter posts of Judd and jack saying they always hit up the gym and I assume they are lifting weights in there as part of their workout.
Then I see players like luca and Lu Hao tian and Stephen lee. You definitely know they are not doing anything physical in terms of weight training at all.
I've always thought that the more muscle you acquire will affect your game negatively because you just become too 'strong' for the game.
I know keeping fit is ideal with running and all that, but is all the weight training muscle necessary?
I mean, does it look like Graeme dott or Robert milkins lift weights?
I would compare what a snooker player needs in physique to a long distance runner and they surely don't lift. The more muscle you pack on the faster you will fatigue as well.
Anyone with real experience and insight please help me out here!

Regarding Jack and Judd I'd imagine when they say hit up the gym they mean cardio and light weights, I noticed Mark King was doing a bbc piece on players training including himself, but you could tell it was fitness related rather than "bodybuilding"

I've cut my weight training down to two days a week now and i feel i play consistently better than when i was going all out 3/4 days like i was previously. Though like i said in earlier posts it was only if i went to failure on shoulders, chest etc would it effect my snooker for a few days...

[mick farrell]

This is a topic of debate that has gone through my mind countless times.
I'm really trying to figure out if my weight training should be continued. I see some twitter posts of Judd and jack saying they always hit up the gym and I assume they are lifting weights in there as part of their workout.
Then I see players like luca and Lu Hao tian and Stephen lee. You definitely know they are not doing anything physical in terms of weight training at all.
I've always thought that the more muscle you acquire will affect your game negatively because you just become too 'strong' for the game.
I know keeping fit is ideal with running and all that, but is all the weight training muscle necessary?
I mean, does it look like Graeme dott or Robert milkins lift weights?
I would compare what a snooker player needs in physique to a long distance runner and they surely don't lift. The more muscle you pack on the faster you will fatigue as well.
Anyone with real experience and insight please help me out here!

If your gym workouts are to build considerable size & strength - your snooker will suffer.
The muscle fibers used when playing snooker (your cue action) are called TYPE 1 SO. They will not grow bigger and are fatigue resistant. They are the same muscle fibers that a violinist would use. The muscle fibers used for weight training are called TYPE 2 FG/FOG. These are the fibers that grow. The recovery process after a weight training workout can still be taking place up to 10 days or even more depending on the exercise done. This recovery process affects the "muscle memory" in your TYPE 1 SO fibers. It doesn't mean you will always play poorly but you may experience playing well one day then playing a few days later and feeling like you had not played in months. Have you heard of the term "muscle tone"? Muscles that are regularly trained (even if they are not getting bigger) are firmer - even when relaxed. Again, this is not a good condition for a snooker player. You will find top pro snooker players of every shape, weight & size over the last 80+ years - but not one with a very muscular physique.

[wayync]

Just today Ronnie posted on his twitter that he went for a fast 3 mile and hit up the gym for 30 minutes. I really want to know why he was doing for that half hour in the gym.

[wayync]

If your gym workouts are to build considerable size & strength - your snooker will suffer.
The muscle fibers used when playing snooker (your cue action) are called TYPE 1 SO. They will not grow bigger and are fatigue resistant. They are the same muscle fibers that a violinist would use. The muscle fibers used for weight training are called TYPE 2 FG/FOG. These are the fibers that grow. The recovery process after a weight training workout can still be taking place up to 10 days or even more depending on the exercise done. This recovery process affects the "muscle memory" in your TYPE 1 SO fibers. It doesn't mean you will always play poorly but you may experience playing well one day then playing a few days later and feeling like you had not played in months. Have you heard of the term "muscle tone"? Muscles that are regularly trained (even if they are not getting bigger) are firmer - even when relaxed. Again, this is not a good condition for a snooker player. You will find top pro snooker players of every shape, weight & size over the last 80+ years - but not one with a very muscular physique.

What about bodyweight workouts like pull-ups and dips? Try can also build considerable size and strength if done consistently.

[mick farrell]

What about bodyweight workouts like pull-ups and dips? Try can also build considerable size and strength if done consistently.

These two exercises can build considerable size and strength - if there are regular increases in your strength (number of reps on each exercise increasing).

[SouthPaw]

If your gym workouts are to build considerable size & strength - your snooker will suffer.
The muscle fibers used when playing snooker (your cue action) are called TYPE 1 SO. They will not grow bigger and are fatigue resistant. They are the same muscle fibers that a violinist would use. The muscle fibers used for weight training are called TYPE 2 FG/FOG. These are the fibers that grow. The recovery process after a weight training workout can still be taking place up to 10 days or even more depending on the exercise done. This recovery process affects the "muscle memory" in your TYPE 1 SO fibers. It doesn't mean you will always play poorly but you may experience playing well one day then playing a few days later and feeling like you had not played in months. Have you heard of the term "muscle tone"? Muscles that are regularly trained (even if they are not getting bigger) are firmer - even when relaxed. Again, this is not a good condition for a snooker player. You will find top pro snooker players of every shape, weight & size over the last 80+ years - but not one with a very muscular physique.

That's interesting to know, do you know if golf is similar regarding muscle memory type 1 etc..? For example Tiger Woods has fairly put on some size compared to his younger days in golf, where he was so dominant, though with his sex addiction and injuries etc, it would be hard to pinpoint his fall from grace...

[Byrom]

I suppose you gym types can always threaten to beat up the other guy if he is wining. This may improve your snooker stats!

I have feel tired thinking about going to a gym and the only weights I do are a few pints and a pie.

[marriott]

Bodybuilding/Muscle gain etc is a complete no-no for snooker.

At the interval in last season’s Welsh Open there was a great video with Dominic Dale re: the role of fitness in the modern game. The head fitness instructor at the gym they filmed at said that the best fitness was water for concentration and delayed squats for about a minute at a time (as well as all the typical cardio to improve fitness). The idea with the delayed squat is that you’re kind of in the same position as if down on the shot but you’re training yourself to stay in that position far longer than when playing.

He said muscle mass was detrimental in a precision sport because it leads to muscle fatigue and feeling heavy.

Everyone talks about the zone in snooker and how you feel like you’re floating around the table and weight-less. That is where we all want to get to, whereas if you’re a bodybuilder or pumping iron you will go the opposite, tired and feeling heavy. I guess it isn’t detrimental for 20 and 30 breaks so much, but if you’re wondering why there are no Arnold Schwarzenegger’s on the main tour, it’s because they need to chain 50+ breaks frame on frame.

[wayync]

Bodybuilding/Muscle gain etc is a complete no-no for snooker.

At the interval in last season’s Welsh Open there was a great video with Dominic Dale re: the role of fitness in the modern game. The head fitness instructor at the gym they filmed at said that the best fitness was water for concentration and delayed squats for about a minute at a time (as well as all the typical cardio to improve fitness). The idea with the delayed squat is that you’re kind of in the same position as if down on the shot but you’re training yourself to stay in that position far longer than when playing.

He said muscle mass was detrimental in a precision sport because it leads to muscle fatigue and feeling heavy.

Everyone talks about the zone in snooker and how you feel like you’re floating around the table and weight-less. That is where we all want to get to, whereas if you’re a bodybuilder or pumping iron you will go the opposite, tired and feeling heavy. I guess it isn’t detrimental for 20 and 30 breaks so much, but if you’re wondering why there are no Arnold Schwarzenegger’s on the main tour, it’s because they need to chain 50+ breaks frame on frame.

What you said makes lots of sense. But there must be some sort of strength training involved?

I mean even a violinist would find their task easier if they did some pull ups and push ups?

It's hard to believe what Mick said earlier how even when the muscles are relaxed but firmer are a bad condition for snooker players

[mick farrell]

What you said makes lots of sense. But there must be some sort of strength training involved?

I mean even a violinist would find their task easier if they did some pull ups and push ups?

It's hard to believe what Mick said earlier how even when the muscles are relaxed but firmer are a bad condition for snooker players

How would a violinist benefit from resistance exercise?

[wayync]

How would a violinist benefit from resistance exercise?

How would they not? They would be in better shape in general.

When all you do is endurance training you sort of feel like a bag of fat and bones. You don't feel fit and in shape that only resistance training can provide.

[mick farrell]

How would they not? They would be in better shape in general.

When all you do is endurance training you sort of feel like a bag of fat and bones. You don't feel fit and in shape that only resistance training can provide.

My question should have asked - would resistance training make a violinist a worse violinist?
Marriot posted an excellent response to this thread ending with "but if you’re wondering why there are no Arnold Schwarzenegger’s on the main tour, it’s because they need to chain 50+ breaks frame on frame." You will also find guys (and girls too) who have built considerable size and strength through weight training and - those choose to play snooker - don't play snooker to a good standard.

[mick farrell]

That's interesting to know, do you know if golf is similar regarding muscle memory type 1 etc..? For example Tiger Woods has fairly put on some size compared to his younger days in golf, where he was so dominant, though with his sex addiction and injuries etc, it would be hard to pinpoint his fall from grace...

Putting in Golf I would think is using type 1 SO. Nick Faldo I think benefited from weight training/strength conditioning years ago. I think the muscles used in snooker are very different to golf ( teeing off etc..) and I am not sure how would weight trainig affect a golfer.

[Terrence]

Man is this post right down my alley!

First off, if anyone has had reason to be concerned I assure you, your training at the gym and snooker game can coexist! Anyone who says otherwise is either A) not active enough in the gym or B) over loading in mass volumization and not periodizing there plan.

To breakdown periodization, it's the process of development over a scheduled time to target a specific goal. In such case body building, would be to obtain a goal of mass muscle growth. Of course DOMS (acronym was stated in a previous post) can be a factor in the first few weeks, anyone whom correctly plans their workouts will easily alleviate themselves of on going DOMS every time they switch to a new workout plan. Note your process should seamless so the new exercise cycle should be a slightly more advanced version of the previous cycle. I.e., seated bicep curls to be advanced to seated Zottman curls. Realize seated is more advanced than standing for various reasons I would only explain if someone really wanted to know.

So now that you have periodization somewhat captured, you might want to look at postural habits. Make no mistake exercise can help posture but it is mainly your habit that will fix this. Posture is crucial for again various reasons but for snooker great for your upper shoulder and neck relief; this is called kyphosis, most men have this issue naturally and more so the men that workout and sometimes find neglecting posterior exercises. For all snooker/pool players we are constantly placing pressure on the upper spine (neck area) when taking a shot with the cue touching our chins. This is in no way good for us or our posture.

Without turning this into a novel, I'll close this with one last comment. For the players that find them selves exercising 5 days a week with a similar routine to the following:

Monday: chest/ back
Tuesday: bi's/ tri's
Wednesday: legs
Thursday: shoulders / calves
Friday: abs / bi's / tri's

Make a mathematical decision to see your working out half of your body one fifth of the time. In short, your legs deserve more attention then that. Secondly, of you have agreed to using a routine like this, then it is exactly that - a routine and your have not periodized your workouts thus really not giving your self a plan and likely suffering from gaining the best results.

* tip: For the average guys here that exercise, look to separating your leg exercise on various days, it will help alleviate DOMS and it will also allow you to produce more testosterone for other lifts.

*tip 2: use full range of motion (ROM) in all exercises, as you gain size you should continue to remain somewhat flexible and continue to play well.

T

[Terrence]

I used my Ipad to write the post above and do not see how I can edit it, I have many errors. Any tips?

Sorry for the double post!