Foul on Black, Level Points

[the_unrepentant]

I had a strange thing happen yesterday while playing and I don't recall coming across this before. I was 31 behind with 27 remaining, got the snooker and cleared up to the black and put it safe. I obviously needed the black for a tie. My opponent completely missed the black and where the white ended up meant I could pot it, but I was sure after his foul and we were on level points, the black had to be re-spotted. Were we right to do that?

[Souwester]

Yes, when only the black remains on the table, the first foul or pot will end the frame, UNLESS as a result of those points, the scores are then level. In that case the black is respotted, and the cue ball is played from in hand. Remember the coin is tossed to see who has the choice of playing first or second.

[the_unrepentant]

Exactly what we did. Thanks for clearing that up!

[SouthPaw]

Yes, when only the black remains on the table, the first foul or pot will end the frame, UNLESS as a result of those points, the scores are then level. In that case the black is respotted, and the cue ball is played from in hand. Remember the coin is tossed to see who has the choice of playing first or second.

Does that count in doubles? ^^ as it's happened before and the game ended due to someone being persistent that any foul on the final black in doubles' ends the frame...

[Souwester]

Does that count in doubles? ^^ as it's happened before and the game ended due to someone being persistent that any foul on the final black in doubles' ends the frame...

Yes. The only time it doesn't apply is in an aggregate score match (unless it is the final frame of such a match).

[SouthPaw]

Yes. The only time it doesn't apply is in an aggregate score match (unless it is the final frame of such a match).

Thanking you till my next question

[TooMuchSide]

I personally think there is a flaw in the rules regarding the end black.
I think if one player is winning by 1-6 points and he/she fouls, they should be allowed to carry on.What was the point of having a lead if there wasn't an advantage from it.If someone is 1-7 behind and fouls, then clearly they would need a snooker, so it should be over.

[Souwester]

I personally think there is a flaw in the rules regarding the end black.
I think if one player is winning by 1-6 points and he/she fouls, they should be allowed to carry on.What was the point of having a lead if there wasn't an advantage from it.If someone is 1-7 behind and fouls, then clearly they would need a snooker, so it should be over.

Errrrm, but that means frames could go on forever!

If player A is 3 points behind but then fouls, he is then 4 points behind. In other words Player B is now 4 points up. So he should be allowed to carry on. And then he fouls, so we're back to A being 3 points in front... It goes on until the black is legally potted or the person who is behind fouls.

IMHO it's a lot cleaner using the rules as they are currently drafted.

[TooMuchSide]

Errrrm, but that means frames could go on forever!

If player A is 3 points behind but then fouls, he is then 4 points behind.No, it is game over, as he would be 10 points behind. In other words Player B is now 4 points up. So he should be allowed to carry on. And then he fouls, so we're back to A being 3 points in front... It goes on until the black is legally potted or the person who is behind fouls.

IMHO it's a lot cleaner using the rules as they are currently drafted.

The only way it would continue "forever", is if the player leading continued to foul!I dont really think a couple of minutes of safety is going to be seen as forever, do you?
All it means is the person leading has the relative luxury of being allowed to make an error;the other player not having that luxury.

[coomsey76]

Yes, when only the black remains on the table, the first foul or pot will end the frame, UNLESS as a result of those points, the scores are then level. In that case the black is respotted, and the cue ball is played from in hand. Remember the coin is tossed to see who has the choice of playing first or second.

That's quite interesting because if my opponent had missed the black completely and we were then on level points after the foul he just committed I would have played the black from were it was on the table and not re-spotted it, I thought the only time you re-spotted the black was if you potted the black and then you were on level points.......

[mooneyy]

Level points at the end of a frame - respotted black (except as stated by Souwester)

Only the black on the table and a player scores (pot or foul) - end of frame

[steveflanuk]

Some people seem to misunderstand the aggregate score/respotted black rule.

Say we have 2 players playing 3 frames with the winner being the one with the highest aggregate score. Player A wins the first frame 100-0 and the second frame is tied at 50-50. Despite the frame being tied, there is no respotted black.

In the third frame Player B wins 100-0, however, as the aggregate scores are now tied 150-150, so there is a respotted black at the end of this frame.

[Souwester]

Some people seem to misunderstand the aggregate score/respotted black rule.

Say we have 2 players playing 3 frames with the winner being the one with the highest aggregate score. Player A wins the first frame 100-0 and the second frame is tied at 50-50. Despite the frame being tied, there is no respotted black.

In the third frame Player B wins 100-0, however, as the aggregate scores are now tied 150-150, so there is a respotted black at the end of this frame.

Just to make it crystal clear: Yes to the third para, BUT ONLY because it is the FINAL frame. If the first frame was 100-0 and the second was 0-100, the aggregate after two frames would be 100-100, but there would be no respotted black.In aggregate score matches there can only ever be a respotted black in the final frame.

[bally969]

tied on black

I had a strange thing happen yesterday while playing and I don't recall coming across this before. I was 31 behind with 27 remaining, got the snooker and cleared up to the black and put it safe. I obviously needed the black for a tie. My opponent completely missed the black and where the white ended up meant I could pot it, but I was sure after his foul and we were on level points, the black had to be re-spotted. Were we right to do that?

yes that' right it's re spoted

[DawRef]

I'll also throw in my six penneth. It's a team match, with 5 players from team A playing 5 members from Team B. The winner is the team with the highest aggregate score over the 5 frames (with me so far?). If at the end of the 5th frame, irrespective of that frame score, the aggregate scores are level, then the two players who played the final frame, play the re-spotted black.
I was in my local club some years ago when this happened. Neither of the two teams realised I was in, and so decided to play an extra frame, each team picking a name out of the hat to see who would play!!!! When I wandered over to see how things were going, they were down to the colours and although I explained the rule to them, they decided, in the interests of fair play, to continue.
I could not referee that match, as I had something else on, and had just popped in for a quick beverage or 2.