Cue ball and ball on landing on top of cushion

[BigBill129]

Hi there,

Ive been playing league and interleague snooker over the last 20 years or so, and over the last 3 weeks or so have come across 2 instances which I could do with a bit of help with.

Match 1. Player pots a red, but the white jumps from the bed, lands on the cushion and rests there (on top of the cushion). What happens to the white? Is it a foul?

Match 2. Player pots a red with force into the middle pocket. Red jumps out of the pocket and starts to travel down the cushion (on top of it) towards the green pocket. However, the red runs out of steam, and doesn't reach the green pocket, and stays on the top of the cushion! What happens to the red? Is it a foul?

On both occaisions, I was the ref. After finding no answers within the rules, the players agreed for the white/red to be placed back onto the bed of the table (by me) directly next to the cusion where they landed.

Was this right?

Thanks

[jrc750]

Both foul shots, white goes to the D, red goes in a pocket (pretty sure that is correct )

[DeanH]

JRC, as I see it you are right, and only recently I had the same chat with a league player down the club
As in both the ball/balls have come to rest not on the bed of the table, always a Foul.
Match 1 - Foul, four points - Turn and Cue Ball In Hand to the non-offender.
Match 2 - Foul, four points - Red is pocketed - Turn to the non-offender.

[BigBill129]

Thanks,

That was mentioned at both of the matches, but there were also arguments that the balls hadn't left the table...ie if the red would have carried on and dropped into the pocket, it would not have been classed as a foul.

Thankfully, on both occasions, the striker was a considerable number of points ahead, so it didn't really interfere with the end frame result.

[Souwester]

Thanks,

That was mentioned at both of the matches, but there were also arguments that the balls hadn't left the table...ie if the red would have carried on and dropped into the pocket, it would not have been classed as a foul.

Thankfully, on both occasions, the striker was a considerable number of points ahead, so it didn't really interfere with the end frame result.

The rule that covers these situations is un Section 2 Definitions:

14. Forced off the table
A ball is forced off the table if it comes to rest other than on the bed of the table or in a pocket, or if it is picked up by the striker, whilst it is in play except as provided for in Section 3 Rule 14(h).

The balls did not come to rest on the bed of the table, nor were they legally potted. They were, therefore, considered to be 'forced off the table' which is a foul. As Dean said, the non-offender has the usual choices from in hand, and in #2 the red would be placed in a rail, and the non-offender would have the usual options from the position left.

[mooneyy]

... but there were also arguments that the balls hadn't left the table...

As the others stated before: This is about the BED of the table, not the table itself.

@everyone who might not know: keep in mind that a ball is legally potted even if it rolls along the top of the rail and drops into a pocket.

[BigBill129]

thanking you all.

Like I said, over 20 years of playing league snooker and it happens twice in a 3 week period! Just like waiting for a bus!!

[DeanH]

As the others stated before: This is about the BED of the table, not the table itself.

@everyone who might not know: keep in mind that a ball is legally potted even if it rolls along the top of the rail and drops into a pocket.

as the rules states "comes to rest either on the Bed (or the "slates" as my friend calls it) or in a pocket" so you are correct, a legal potted ball if runs along the custion and drops in, game on

thanking you all.

Like I said, over 20 years of playing league snooker and it happens twice in a 3 week period! Just like waiting for a bus!!

I have only seen it once when the ball came to rest on the cushion, so 2 in 3-weeks, the third should be along any time now...

[BigBill129]

I hope i'm not reffing that frame...all the lads will know I was wrong on the other 2 occasions!!! ha ha

[sberry]

simples, if the ball comes to rest anywhere except on the bed of the table or in a pocket, it is off the table and therefore fouled, red in pocket, white in hand

also, you could remind them, the refs decision is always final, even if it's wrong!

[DawRef]

Only once have I seen something similar. Player forced the red into a pocket. It jumped out, ran along the rail, but instead of falling into the middle pocket, it fell back onto the table. Not onto the bed of the table, but rested on top of 3 balls that were close to the cushion. Still a foul, but it did raise some argument. Luckily I was reffing and was able to point out the relevant section of the rules (after the frame ended).