Nominating free ball ?

[astle_the_king]

Do you have to nominate your colour in freeball situation even if its obvious ?, i dont think you do but my teammate says its a foul shot if you dont nominate .

[RGCirencester]

I thought you only had to nominate when it wasn't obvious as with the colours but I haven't got any rules near me right now.

[Souwester]

I thought you only had to nominate when it wasn't obvious as with the colours but I haven't got any rules near me right now.

Indeed. According to the rules. you nominate by indication (pointing with cue or finger etc) OR declaration (verbal statement). By and large players nominate their shot by indication, and only when it is unclear do they declare, and in these situations the referee should always ask the player to declare.

[astle_the_king]

I think both spot on but my mate wont have it .

[steveflanuk]

Section 2 - Definitions

Rule 12 - Nominated Ball

(a) A nominated ball is the object ball which the striker declares, or indicates to the satisfaction of the referee, he undertakes to hit with the first impact of the cue-ball.

(b) If requested by the referee, the striker must declare which ball he is on.


Basically, if, say, a colour was at the end of the table were you're aiming, and the rest were at the other end of the table, then I would say it was fairly obvious which ball you were nominating as your free ball.

As always with these things - if the referee is unsure he MUST ask you to declare. I normally declare verbally anyway a a matter of course.

[cuemick147]

I think both spot on but my mate wont have it .

you dont have to nominate the free ball unless its close to another ball. if its obvious which ball your going for then its ok. but if the ref ask you to nominate and you dont, then it a foul with a 7 point penalty. it happened with me once when the ref called a foul on me, but he knew what ball is was going to play. i ask for 2nd opinion and a more senior ref knew i was right. its nice when you know the rules

[RGCirencester]

I think both spot on but my mate wont have it .

Tell your mate nobody argues with souwester on the rules :P

P.s. The rules are online tell him to point to the part that proves he's right... I think he'll have quite a trouble

[tommygunner1309]

9 out of 10 players would normally declare their free ball. Indeed it is common sense to do so. What would you do as a referee if you had this situation. Player A fouls and snookers Player B and the ref declares a free ball. Player B gets down and aims at the yellow which is on its spot, but misses it by a fraction - the cue ball comes off the bottom cushion and runs up the table and hits the black. What would you do? There is a school of thought that thinks he was indicating yellow - so it would be a 7 point penalty when he hits the black. What then if the player declares he was playing black.? Actually, as a referee I would say "declare please" when the player got down to play his shot. The ref is completely within his rights to do so if there is any doubt in his mind. If the player still fails to declare then I would award the penalty seven as the rules state that a player must declare if requested by the referee. Its up to the referee - he is in charge of the match and his decision is final. End of

[allanr5]

What if say the green and yellow are beside each other? it's only common sense to nominate yellow if that's the one your taking as a red if it's obvious you may say why should I bother but the rules are the rules and everyone has to clear on the ball your nominating, if your playing by the official rules failure not to indicate/nominate a free ball is a foul--- the end

[RGCirencester]

In that situation Yes I agree but what if every ball is at the black end of the table except the yellow which you take as a free ball. It is obvious which ball you have chosen and you have indicated this to the referee by pointing the cue at it
The is a difference between "common sense" and the rules and a free ball is not really different to taking a colour after a red, you have merely marked it as a different and more important occurrence in your head.

[Souwester]

What if say the green and yellow are beside each other? it's only common sense to nominate yellow if that's the one your taking as a red if it's obvious you may say why should I bother but the rules are the rules and everyone has to clear on the ball your nominating, if your playing by the official rules failure not to indicate/nominate a free ball is a foul--- the end

No! It's only a foul if you fail to declare your nominated ball if asked by the referee. The referee (or your opponent where there is no independent referee) should, however, ask you to declare if he is uncertain of your nomination by indication. A referee can never call a foul if you haven't declared a different ball. It is, though, common sense for a player to declare his nominated ball (whether after potting a red, or when he has a free ball) if the nomination by indication could be ambiguous.

s2 12. Nominated Ball
(a) A nominated ball is the object ball which the striker declares, or indicates to the satisfaction of the referee, he undertakes to hit with the first impact of the cue-ball.
(b) If requested by the referee, the striker must declare which ball he is on.

The only bit in the rules regarding fouls and nominated balls is this, in s3 r10 Penalties:

(d) seven points if the striker:
(v) fails to declare which ball he is on when snookered or when requested to do so by the referee

[allanr5]

I know your the resident expert on rules here so no disrepect OK but the rule your quoting says in a) the striker must declare or indicate the nominated ball --right ? why part b) is there is somewhat redundant if you have follow a) unless indicate can be interpreted as the obvious (don't know) so putting the shoe on the other foot if 2 coloured's are side by side and knowbody says a word questioning the strickers intentions and the stricker says nothing its not a foul because the ref didn't ask for declaration what am I missing here just trying to learn but rules like this are somewhat ambiguous

[mooneyy]

I don't find them ambiguous.

Nowhere under a) stands, that the striker must declare a ball. This is just a definition of "the nominated ball". And of course, any indication has to be to the satisfaction of the ref.

b) then tells you explicitly that the only situation where you must declare is when asked by the ref.

And yes: If the ref doesn't ask about those two colours, it's not a foul.

IMO this rule could well have been introduced because refs forgot to ask players to nominate and deemed this to be a foul afterwards.
Do you know that Souwester?

[Souwester]

I know your the resident expert on rules here so no disrepect OK but the rule your quoting says in a) the striker must declare or indicate the nominated ball --right ? why part b) is there is somewhat redundant if you have follow a) unless indicate can be interpreted as the obvious (don't know) so putting the shoe on the other foot if 2 coloured's are side by side and knowbody says a word questioning the strickers intentions and the stricker says nothing its not a foul because the ref didn't ask for declaration what am I missing here just trying to learn but rules like this are somewhat ambiguous

b) is there because nomination can be by indication (ie pointing with cue rather than saying anything) and if the referee isn't clear which ball he's actually pointing at, then he can ask the player to verbally clarify which ball he's aiming at. If he hasn't been asked to clarify by declaration which of two side by side balls he was aiming at then the referee must give the player the benefit of the doubt if he hits the one that the referee wasn't expecting. The onus is on the referee to see clarification if it is not patently clear which ball the striker is aiming to hit.

The fact that section b) is there is what enables a foul to be called. Failure to comply is an infringement of the rules, and any infringement is a foul.

I don't find them ambiguous.

Nowhere under a) stands, that the striker must declare a ball. This is just a definition of "the nominated ball". And of course, any indication has to be to the satisfaction of the ref.

b) then tells you explicitly that the only situation where you must declare is when asked by the ref.

And yes: If the ref doesn't ask about those two colours, it's not a foul.

IMO this rule could well have been introduced because refs forgot to ask players to nominate and deemed this to be a foul afterwards.
Do you know that Souwester?

Agreed. No, I don't know when or why that was put in the rules, but it's been in there since at least the 1987 version (being the rule book I had to learn for my Class C exam).

[cuemick147]

What if say the green and yellow are beside each other? it's only common sense to nominate yellow if that's the one your taking as a red if it's obvious you may say why should I bother but the rules are the rules and everyone has to clear on the ball your nominating, if your playing by the official rules failure not to indicate/nominate a free ball is a foul--- the end

sorry but you dont have to nominate if its obvious, in my case i had the ball in hand and set it up behind the brown. which was on its spot. the ref watched me do this. if he was not sure of which ball you are going too play, he can ask you too nominate.. ask any ref and they will back this up.. this is the real end (QUOTE)