What to do in an 'impossible' snooker?

[Snooky335]

In my last match I potted a red and was trying to come up the table for the blue but cannoned another red taking the cue ball into a loose cluster of reds below the pink. I was snookered on all colours and could only see one side cushion and even then, just at an angle taking me towards the black spot. Black was up near the blue and there was no way to come off side and bottom cushions to get to the middle of the table to a colour.

My playing partner agreed that it was an impossible escape....so then what do you do? If I just rolled the white safe with the concession of 4 points (call one of the baulk colours for example) that would feel like I was in breach of the spirit of the game.

In the end, despite knowing I didn't have the angle to make the shot, I called black and tried the side, bottom cushion escape with a ton of side.....and smashed into the reds giving away 7 and leaving 3 or 4 pots on.

Any thoughts?

[DeanH]

This has been explained before (on TV as well by Jan verHaas).
In an impossible position, a snooker, the Stricker must - by direction of shot, strength of shot, and manner of shot, play a shot that would, in normal situations, have hit the ball-on.
Rule Sec 3, Rule 14 Foul and Miss, "...or a situation exists where it is impossible to hit the ball on. In the latter case it must be assumed the striker is attempting to hit the ball on provided that he plays, directly or indirectly, at the ball on with sufficient strength, in the referee’s opinion, to have reached the ball on but for the obstructing ball or balls."
As long as you played in such a manner, the points given for the foul would relate to the ball-on (your nomination) value.

[Snooky335]

Thanks Dean, appreciate that.

Looks like, using common sense rather than a knowledge of that particular rule, I played the right shot!

Good rule to know.....albeit in 20+ years of playing the game (on and off) I have never before found myself in an impossible snooker. Hope it is another 20 years until the next time lol

[DeanH]

Yep, as Jan verHaas, said, you just have to accept that points will be awarded away.
Personally I have never seen it on the snooker table - and hope I never do when it is my turn

[tomw]

I have seen it, not so long ago in competition... cue ball against the baulk cushion, "surrounded" by blue and yellow, and red is ball on.
The mutual agreement was that the player shoots the cue ball towards the reds (thus hitting blue and yellow, and causing a push shot) and will not be given a miss then.

[Touchwood]

The answers given are spot on, so nothing to add there - it's interesting to note though that a couple of posts mention how rare it is to see an "impossible" snooker. In 50+ years of playing the game I've never seen it - nearest was with just pink and black left, white and black on top cushion, pink touching white and very slightly off a line straight up and down the table, so only shot away from pink was away from the black and into the jaws of the corner pocket, with the remote possibility of the cue ball rattling and emerging somehow to hit the black (there wasn't even enough angle to get to the side cushion) Given the actual rule, I'm not sure that playing into the jaws would be construed as a legal shot, whereas playing toward the black and pushing the pink would be.

[mooneyy]

So only pink and black on the table, touching ball on pink... So pink must be the ball on surely, or have I misunderstood something?

May be a stupid question, but how could this be an impossible snooker?

Maybe I'm not getting something.

[Touchwood]

I think I left my brain at home today Mooneyy.........for pink read black, for black read pink........doh!

[DeanH]

I think playing into the jaws would be considered an acceptable attempt, as long as the shot was played that it is seen to be a legitimate attempt to hit the ball-on, and the white does in general travel in the direction of the ball on (Pink).

[mooneyy]

Alright...

Then yes, playing towards the pink with an adequate amount of pace in order to reach it and pushing the black would be a legal shot.
I also do not think that trying to hit the pink via the jaws could regarded as legal.

Would be interesting to hear an explenation from Souwester or any other Ref...

[DeanH]

unfortunately Souwester has left TSF

If the shot to the jaws returned and went anywhere near the direction and distance of the Pink, I would rate that as a legal attempt, still be a Foul (6 points away) but probably not a Miss.
ep, any ref contribution welcomed

[screw-back]

I remember quite vividly that the Ref who explained it was Eirian Williams when he was being interviewed by Ken Doherty at the Masters (two years ago I think). He said exactly what was explained in this thread. Hit the cue ball in the direction of the ball hard enough so that it would have reached had it not been for the snookering ball. I seem to remember that he explained that if the ball-on was a colour, that it would make sense to nominate a colour which would attract just a four point penalty.

[mythman69]

I remember quite vividly that the Ref who explained it was Eirian Williams when he was being interviewed by Ken Doherty at the Masters (two years ago I think). He said exactly what was explained in this thread. Hit the cue ball in the direction of the ball hard enough so that it would have reached had it not been for the snookering ball. I seem to remember that he explained that if the ball-on was a colour, that it would make sense to nominate a colour which would attract just a four point penalty.

I asked Eirian Williams the same question and he gave the same answer to me.

: )

[vmax4steve]

The answers given are spot on, so nothing to add there - it's interesting to note though that a couple of posts mention how rare it is to see an "impossible" snooker. In 50+ years of playing the game I've never seen it - nearest was with just pink and black left, white and black on top cushion, pink touching white and very slightly off a line straight up and down the table, so only shot away from pink was away from the black and into the jaws of the corner pocket, with the remote possibility of the cue ball rattling and emerging somehow to hit the black (there wasn't even enough angle to get to the side cushion) Given the actual rule, I'm not sure that playing into the jaws would be construed as a legal shot, whereas playing toward the black and pushing the pink would be.

I was in a similar situation once where the cue ball was frozen on the top cushion with the pink touching it and the only direction the cue ball could be struck was into the jaws of either corner pocket.
What I did was to drive the cue ball hard into the top cushion to make it travel up the table to the only red that was left on the table which was somewhere near the green spot. I only missed it by a foot which was a pretty good effort considering.

[DeanH]

I remember it was Hazel and Jan at a table which had a cue ball on the cushion with two reds (IIRC) very close to it so there was absolutely no way of playing the cue ball without hitting one or more reds. I think this may have been the WSC either two or three years ago.
The Williams interview, IIRC, did not have a table or balls but was just a discussion. ?