What to do in an 'impossible' snooker?

[DeanH]

The answers given are spot on, so nothing to add there - it's interesting to note though that a couple of posts mention how rare it is to see an "impossible" snooker. In 50+ years of playing the game I've never seen it - nearest was with just pink and black left, white and black on top cushion, pink touching white and very slightly off a line straight up and down the table, so only shot away from pink was away from the black and into the jaws of the corner pocket, with the remote possibility of the cue ball rattling and emerging somehow to hit the black (there wasn't even enough angle to get to the side cushion) Given the actual rule, I'm not sure that playing into the jaws would be construed as a legal shot, whereas playing toward the black and pushing the pink would be.

Rereading this scenario, it possibly is not an 'impossible' snooker as there is a path for the white to miss the black, ok it is very likely a blooming difficult snooker to get out of yes but not an impossible one.
An 'impossible' snooker is where there is no path for the cue ball to travel without fouling at least one ball not on.

[Touchwood]

Long time since I read the rules, but i wonder if a "jump" shot played via the cushion is still legal? There was a time when although casuing the cue ball to jump directly over another ball was a foul, playing cushion first with top (which if played correctly causes it to jump) wasn't illegal. This may give another route to some (though not all) "impossible" snookers - what would be the referee's judgement on this?

[Touchwood]

Rereading this scenario, it possibly is not an 'impossible' snooker as there is a path for the white to miss the black, ok it is very likely a blooming difficult snooker to get out of yes but not an impossible one.
An 'impossible' snooker is where there is no path for the cue ball to travel without fouling at least one ball not on.

True - but I did say "I've never seen it - nearest was with......."

[DeanH]

True - but I did say "I've never seen it - nearest was with......."

I have got to get some new reading glasses

[nrage]

Long time since I read the rules, but i wonder if a "jump" shot played via the cushion is still legal? There was a time when although casuing the cue ball to jump directly over another ball was a foul, playing cushion first with top (which if played correctly causes it to jump) wasn't illegal. This may give another route to some (though not all) "impossible" snookers - what would be the referee's judgement on this?

IIRC the white must strike a ball on before jumping a ball on or not on.

[screw-back]

I remember it was Hazel and Jan at a table which had a cue ball on the cushion with two reds (IIRC) very close to it so there was absolutely no way of playing the cue ball without hitting one or more reds. I think this may have been the WSC either two or three years ago.
The Williams interview, IIRC, did not have a table or balls but was just a discussion. ?

The Doherty/Williams film certainly DID have a table with several balls on it. It may well have been recorded by Irvine/Verhaas too but (and this isn't IIRC but IRC) it was recorded at the Masters two years ago.

[tommygunner1309]

Long time since I read the rules, but i wonder if a "jump" shot played via the cushion is still legal? There was a time when although casuing the cue ball to jump directly over another ball was a foul, playing cushion first with top (which if played correctly causes it to jump) wasn't illegal. This may give another route to some (though not all) "impossible" snookers - what would be the referee's judgement on this?

Section 2.20 A jump shot is made when the cue ball passes over any part of an object ball whether touching it in the process or not, except:
(a)when the cue ball first strikes one object ball and then jumps over another ball;
(b)when the cue ball jumps and strikes an object ball but does not land on the far side of that ball;
(c)When, after striking an object ball lawfully, the cue ball jumps over that ball after hitting a cushion or another ball.

Still not totally clear, but basically, as far as a ref is concerned, if the cue ball lands on the far side of the ball on without touching it, even if it strikes another ball on, it is a foul

[nrage]

Section 2.20 A jump shot is made when the cue ball passes over any part of an object ball whether touching it in the process or not, except:
(a)when the cue ball first strikes one object ball and then jumps over another ball;
(b)when the cue ball jumps and strikes an object ball but does not land on the far side of that ball;
(c)When, after striking an object ball lawfully, the cue ball jumps over that ball after hitting a cushion or another ball.

Still not totally clear, but basically, as far as a ref is concerned, if the cue ball lands on the far side of the ball on without touching it, even if it strikes another ball on, it is a foul

Just to clarify "even if it strikes another ball on" /after/ going over /the/ ball on - not before. When I first read what you wrote I thought you'd got it wrong, re-reading several times made me realise (I think) what you actually meant, but still the wording could be confusing, IMO. Hope you don't mind.

[tommygunner1309]

Just to clarify "even if it strikes another ball on" /after/ going over /the/ ball on - not before. When I first read what you wrote I thought you'd got it wrong, re-reading several times made me realise (I think) what you actually meant, but still the wording could be confusing, IMO. Hope you don't mind.

Yes, what I meant was, the striker plays at red (ball on) and the cue ball jumps over that ball, lands on the other side and hits a red (which is a ball 'on') It is still a foul, as it is a jump shot on the first red.

And of course I don't mind. Thats what this forum is all about. Discussion and getting it right. It benefits all of us to thrash these things out in civilized discussion - a) I enjoy it and b) I learn from it too - that can't be bad :-))

[magicman]

I think an 'impossible snooker' is as rare as rocking horse s**t. Most really tough snookers are hittable with enough attempts. I witnessed 15/16 misses by an International player and the pro record for misses is something similar. When you think just how good pro's are, 16 attempts shows just how difficult the escape was. But that's my point - difficult not impossible.