Rule query regarding touching ball?

[cueman]

I was reffing a match in my local summer league and the situation came up that I've not had to deal with before.
Player potted a red and came to land in the pack of reds and ended up touching ball on the blue. Touching ball was declared and I said to the player to please nominate. He was snookered on all other colours so naturally played away from the blue but failed to nominate the ball he intended to hit.

I called foul 7 points to the other player as I understand it if you fail to nominate a colour on a touching ball you have to call a foul of the maximum value of the ball that could be 'on' which is obviously the black. There was a little bemusement and I was questioned into why the call and the value of the foul. Was I right as I stood by the call. Fortunately it didn't affect the outcome of the game as the player won comfortably anyway but it would be nice to clear this up. Also should a miss have been called too? In the unexpected moment of the situation I didn't call miss but don't know whether it was as he didn't fail to hit a ball so from my point of view I assumed it wasn't a miss.

[DeanH]

you are correct, even if tricky
Sec3.10(d) seven points if the striker:...
(v) fails to declare which ball he is on when snookered or when requested to do so by the referee;...

miss - I would not think so, he did after all play the shot to the best of his ablity, just forgot to nominate

[cueman]

thanks for the reply. I read this rule a couple of years ago but never had to implement it during a game and you start to doubt yourself when others question you and you haven't a rulebook to hand! One of those situations that would never happen in the professional game or very unlikely but always likely to crop up in amatuer divisions with players not knowing the full rules or being used to having a ref know of the rule.

[DeanH]

your exact scenario is in the Referees best practise, "some tips for players refereeing in their local leagues"
I now have an app on my phone that has the rules, so can be checked AFTER the frame

last week in our pool match, I ws refing one of my team mates (fairly new) and he was given a "Foul Snooker" and he was going to hit an opponent's ball, it was obvious to everyone, I asked him what he was goign to do, he replied "I am in Total snooker" and proceeded to strike
After the match we had a chat and he just shook his head and bemoaned the "new rules"

[SouthPaw]

Out of interest did the player believe he could've just played the blue as it was touching? To be honest we all have to chip in during the season as a referee and it is situations like this... i dread as i know there's a high chance your not going to be believed when making your decision!

[cueman]

Out of interest did the player believe he could've just played the blue as it was touching? To be honest we all have to chip in during the season as a referee and it is situations like this... i dread as i know there's a high chance your not going to be believed when making your decision!

I think that must have gone through his mind. He's only a young player but apparantly his team mates have told him that when touching ball he should nominate unless its a red obviously, and if given a free ball to always nominate, as whoever is reffing is always quick to call foul if they don't. Its slightly harsh I guess but at least he'll know in future what to do in that situation.

[neptar]

Out of interest did the player believe he could've just played the blue as it was touching? To be honest we all have to chip in during the season as a referee and it is situations like this... i dread as i know there's a high chance your not going to be believed when making your decision!

He can can't he? If I was to pot a red and then end up touching the pink, can I not nominate pink and play away into baulk?

Also what are the rules if I had a touching ball, but the balls are situated on a spot on the table which has a slight dint. I play the shot clearly away from the ball and don't touch it, yet the object ball rocks on the spot because of the dint. Would this be a foul?

[DeanH]

He can can't he? If I was to pot a red and then end up touching the pink, can I not nominate pink and play away into baulk??

yes of course he can, that is not what is the problem here, it is the fact that the ref asked for the nomination, none given, strike taken, foul.

Also what are the rules if I had a touching ball, but the balls are situated on a spot on the table which has a slight dint. I play the shot clearly away from the ball and don't touch it, yet the object ball rocks on the spot because of the dint. Would this be a foul?

There is a rule that covers this:
Sec 3 8 Touching Ball
(f) If the referee is satisfied that any movement of a touching ball at the moment of striking was not caused by the striker, he will not call a foul.

[neptar]

Thanks for the speedy response and for clearing that one up