Cue Ball go in-off after the player leave the table

[Suke]

Wondering if player 1 lost control of the cue ball and it stops very very near to the pocket.
Then player 1 leave the table and his opponent start sighting. after like 5 sec, the CB go "in-off".
What should happen?

[warren132]

I think the ball would be replaced...

[Suke]

no foul to be called?

[Jetmech]

Hi,

I think in this case Snooker Rules, section 3. 9 (a) applies:

9. Ball on Edge of Pocket

When a ball falls into a pocket without being hit by another ball, and:
(a) Being no part of any stroke in progress, it shall be replaced and any points previously scored shall count.

Best regards,
GR.

[SnkrRef]

Rule 9(c) goes on to say:

(c) If a ball balances momentarily on the edge of a pocket and then falls in, it shall count as in the pocket and not be replaced.

So it depends on how you define 'momentarily'. I'd say it's just a second or two. If a ball drops in after 5 secs (per the OP), then to my mind that is NOT momentarily and it would be replaced, without any foul or penalty. Player 2 continues with his shot.

[tommygunner1309]

Rule 9(c) goes on to say:

(c) If a ball balances momentarily on the edge of a pocket and then falls in, it shall count as in the pocket and not be replaced.

So it depends on how you define 'momentarily'. I'd say it's just a second or two. If a ball drops in after 5 secs (per the OP), then to my mind that is NOT momentarily and it would be replaced, without any foul or penalty. Player 2 continues with his shot.

If player 1 has left the table his turn is deemed to have ended. If the ball then, falls into the pocket, it should be replaced with no penalty.

[SnkrRef]

If player 1 has left the table his turn is deemed to have ended. If the ball then, falls into the pocket, it should be replaced with no penalty.

Sorry, but a stroke has not ended until all balls have come to rest, and the momentary balancing before it drops would be considered as not having come to rest until it falls in the pocket. It's immaterial whether the player has managed to leave the table in those couple of seconds.

[SnkrRef]

Tommy, think of another scenario. Red is the ball on. Player needs to play it at pace to clip it in to say the centre pocket. He misses the pot and walks away from the table in disgust, leaving the cue ball travelling round the table still. The cue ball then wobbles in the jaw of a corner pocket, and after momentarily balancing it drops. Surely you'd call a foul for that?

[tommygunner1309]

Yes I agree that the stroke is not finished until all balls are still, but I read the first post as the white stopped on the edge of the pocket and the player went back to his seat, and then the white fell in. Of course, if he has left the table and the balls are still moving then that is a different scenario.

Yes I also agree with you on the second example. I would have deemed that the white had not stopped moving, and it fell into the pocket which would be a foul.

The only time I would not call a foul is when all balls have clearly stopped moving, and the player has made his way to his seat and the incoming player has made his way to the table, and then, either from vibration or some other factor the white drops in the pocket.
This was the scenario I had in mind when I wrote my first post. Of course, it is refs discretion, but I think it is reasonably obvious which decision to make when the situation arises in a match. Of course, again, I would hate to get it wrong.............especially if it had been Alex Higgins playing..........

[SnkrRef]

It's all in the timing... just what is 'momentarily'?

[tommygunner1309]

It's all in the timing... just what is 'momentarily'?

Momentarily - to me that would be when a ball moves toward a pocket slowly. when reaching the edge of the pocket, it appears to stop, but almost immediately, then drops into the pocket. Foul, I would say.
This is my interpretation of it not being a foul, and again it has to do with a completion of a stroke. Section 2.6 (c)
A stroke is not completed until:
(I) All balls have come to rest.
(ii) the striker has stood up, in readiness for a succeeding stroke, or leaving the table;
(iii)any equipment being used by the striker has been removed from a hazardous position; and
(iv) the referee has called any score relevant to the stroke.

Generally not all these conditions happen every time. Mostly you could say that after most shots the turn is ended when the balls have come to rest, the striker has left the table and the ref calls the score, if one has been made.
Obviously, if a ball falls into a pocket at this juncture, then it should be replaced without penalty.
'Momentarily' is what a referee would have to use his discretion on. Some refs may have a different decision than some others, but in the end I think it is just that - referee's discretion. Who really can give an answer to the written question. I think it is only when you are reffing a match and this occurs that you can make the call. My idea of momentarily might be a tad different from someone else's.
Interesting debate - but as I said, I think you can only make the call in practice - not in theory

[tommydale]

I know this is slightly different, but I play pool and this happened in a league game too. I was told that if a ball comes to rest in the jaws, it should be given 3 seconds before deeming the visit to be over. Should it drop at any time after these 3 seconds, it is to be spotted.

I know this isn't snooker but still. Is this relevant at all? :')

[SnkrRef]

'Momentarily' is what a referee would have to use his discretion on. Some refs may have a different decision than some others, but in the end I think it is just that - referee's discretion. Who really can give an answer to the written question. I think it is only when you are reffing a match and this occurs that you can make the call. My idea of momentarily might be a tad different from someone else's.
Interesting debate - but as I said, I think you can only make the call in practice - not in theory

Indeed, it's always going to be subjective... but 5 secs as stated in the OP i would say is unequivocally not 'momentarily'. A second almost certainly is. The line is somewhere in between, and probably depends on the circumstances.

[SnkrRef]

I know this is slightly different, but I play pool and this happened in a league game too. I was told that if a ball comes to rest in the jaws, it should be given 3 seconds before deeming the visit to be over. Should it drop at any time after these 3 seconds, it is to be spotted.

I know this isn't snooker but still. Is this relevant at all? :')

Not sure what rule set you play, but in World Rules there's no time limit defined.

This is what the rules say:

U. Balls Falling Without Being Hit
1. Any ball that falls into a pocket at any time, without being struck, shall be replaced by the
Referee to its original position, no penalty. Time will be re-started and the player in control
continues with the visit.
2. Should any ball fall into the pocket after a shot is played and before balls come to rest,
providing the fallen ball played no part in the shot, once all other balls have stopped moving, it
shall be replaced as described above.
a. If a legal pot was made play continues with the same visit.
b. If no pot was made play continues with the next visit.
c. If a foul was made then the next player will continue with the appropriate penalty.
3. Should any ball fall into the pocket after a shot is played, but before balls come to rest, and the
fallen ball would have been struck, then the Referee will replace all balls to their original
positions
a. If no infringements of the rules were committed during the shot, or if the cue ball is
potted as a result of a ball falling that the cue ball would have otherwise hit, the player
who played will replay the shot or may play a different shot
b. If any foul was committed (other than as defined in a) above) then the next player will
continue with the appropriate penalty.

Further, the Guidance to Referees doesn't explicitly state a time limit either:

16. Balls falling without being hit (rule V)
The instant that the Referee has determined that a shot is over, time will be started. Any subsequent ball falling, no matter how close to time starting, will be treated as falling without being hit, and it shall be replaced where it was prior to falling. Only the fallen ball will be replaced even if other balls were moving. Exception, if it is absolutely clear a moving ball would have struck the ball that fell, the fallen ball is replaced also all other balls are restored to the positions before the shot was played. The same player will then play again without penalty. The Player may decide to play a different shot.
If a ball falls in without being hit timing shall be restarted when the ball(s) have been replaced.