4 or 7 penalty?

[roylu021]

In this scenario, the opponent can let him play the red or yellow when all red are off just like a new turn begins, OR he can let offender to play at color(of striker's choice) , not necessarily the same color as previous choice.

The word in rules are quite misleading i think.(sorry I am a Chinese, not a native English speaker)

[SnkrRef]

In this scenario, the opponent can let him play the red or yellow when all red are off just like a new turn begins, OR he can let offender to play at color(of striker's choice) , not necessarily the same color as previous choice.

The word in rules are quite misleading i think.(sorry I am a Chinese, not a native English speaker)

When I first came across this rule I read it several times, and had to go back to various higher authorities, and in the end it was only Alan Chamberlain who confirmed that my interpretation of what he had drafted was indeed correct.

Referring specifically to your posting: if a player pots the last red and then fouls, whilst hampered, in preparing to play his next shot, then the non-offender can in this instance ask the player to play at any colour of his (the offender's) choice OR at the yellow (because there are now no reds left to play at).

[Odrl]

Yes, but surely all this is assuming nothing moves significantly, so there isn't really a "new position". Like if you touch a ball with your sleeve, for example.

If you visibly disturb balls when committing such a foul and are then asked to play your shot on a colour again, won't the referee replace all the balls to the best of his ability, as if it were a foul and miss situation?

I know the rule says "if requested by the non-offender", but there is something similar in the miss rule, where the non-offender is supposed to ask the referee whether he intends to replace any balls other than the cue-ball, even though we know that in reality the referee will always attempt to replace every ball to its original position, to the best of his ability...

[SnkrRef]

The F&M rule is different in that it is clearly down to the referee to determine which balls will be moved, but, as you rightly say, it is best practice to replace all balls to their original positions, as best as possible. The onus is on the referee to make a decision, and to answer, if asked, about his intentions.

3.11(i) is too new a rule which hasn't often been applied, but the wording suggests that any balls moved will only be replaced if the non-offender so requests. That decision entirely rests with him and not the referee.I guess there could be scenarios where the balls have moved to make it more difficult to play a good shot, so the non-offender will be happy to let the offender play from where the balls are.

[Odrl]

3.11(i) is too new a rule which hasn't often been applied, but the wording suggests that any balls moved will only be replaced if the non-offender so requests. That decision entirely rests with him and not the referee.I guess there could be scenarios where the balls have moved to make it more difficult to play a good shot, so the non-offender will be happy to let the offender play from where the balls are.

Interesting... So let's say a player pots a red and gets stuck in the pack, with just enough of a gap between the reds to be able to hit a baulk colour for safety. He then attempts to position the spider in an awkward spot and knocks a red in front of the white, leaving himself snookered on all colours. His opponent can then ask him to play the shot on the colour again, without requesting that the red be replaced? And the referee does not have the discretion to replace the red anyway?

Obviously that's a scenario that would happen very rarely... But if it did happen, would you (as the non-offender) take advantage of it, or would you find it somewhat unsporting?

[SnkrRef]

I think it is one of those quirks that he'd have to live with. A player could just as easily be on a red, without being hampered, miscue and leave himself snookered behind a colour. Normal foul, and surely now the non-offender will take advantage of the situation (unless there was an easy free ball). In fact, I know I've tried trickling up to a baulk colour, fallen short and left the cue ball snookered on the reds. Surprise, surprise, I found myself playing from that position!