Handicap systems

[toppotter1967]

Good Afternoon
I am looking for a handicap system to introduce into our snooker league for next season can anyone help.

Cheers
Gordon

[audiandy]

Has your league any handicaps now or do you all play from scratch?
There are many ways in which to work on a handicap system from very simple to complex, and if you are starting from the very beginning the initial handicap will be so important and will no doubt have plenty of players in disagreement.
Will your league be seeded? i.e will the top stick play one another and so on down the team or will it be any one plays any one from the opposite team?

[inevermissblue]

In my opinion handicaps are more trouble than they are worth! Scrap the idea mate. I can't stand handicaps at all!!!
The amount of times ive drawn someone who has 28+ start and then proceeds to play like an ex-pro is unbeleivable!!!
If they need a start they shouldn't be competing. Especially in your division! End of rant. :-)

[jrc750]

In my opinion handicaps are more trouble than they are worth! Scrap the idea mate. I can't stand handicaps at all!!!
The amount of times ive drawn someone who has 28+ start and then proceeds to play like an ex-pro is unbeleivable!!!
If they need a start they shouldn't be competing. Especially in your division! End of rant. :-)

Ideally there would be different divisions to enter in, but nowadays not enough players (in my clubs) so all into one bunch, the lower class players simply would not enter if no handicap, i mean if you struggle to make a 20 break, not worth paying good money to get slaughtered by a regular 70 break or over player ?? so would end up with a competition amongst maybe a dozen people

[karlos fandango]

I agree handicaps are a joke in our local leagues anyway...I would suggest scratch to 21 and review the handicaps after every game..if you win your game you should be pulled 7 and if you lose a game you should be given 7...after a few weeks hopefully everyone is somewhere near the handicap that represents there game...obviously scratch players cannot go any lower and a 21 player cannot go above this...

[sprogbasket]

Good point..problem is handicaps are not allocated fairly and some very capable players are given high handicaps and gladly accept them knowing they are well better than their handicap - they then go on to have some tactical losses to ensure their handicap is not reduced! ...absolute joke.

Very difficult as an intermediate standard player to approach handicap matches with the right mind set.

Most half decent players I know don't like or want handicap systems especially for league matches.

Should be level playing field and if not good enough then practice more or get used to losing....simples squeek,squeek. QUOTE=jrc750;758394]Ideally there would be different divisions to enter in, but nowadays not enough players (in my clubs) so all into one bunch, the lower class players simply would not enter if no handicap, i mean if you struggle to make a 20 break, not worth paying good money to get slaughtered by a regular 70 break or over player ?? so would end up with a competition amongst maybe a dozen people[/QUOTE]

[luke-h]

The only way handicaps work is if the player is honest 100pc with his or her ability, trouble is as has been said a lot of people will on paper be rubbish needing a massive points start and he will be able to knock decent breaks in.

There are a lot of players in the leagues around us that are better than their handicap states

[perpetualboredom]

Good point..problem is handicaps are not allocated fairly and some very capable players are given high handicaps and gladly accept them knowing they are well better than their handicap - they then go on to have some tactical losses to ensure their handicap is not reduced! ...absolute joke.

Very difficult as an intermediate standard player to approach handicap matches with the right mind set.

Most half decent players I know don't like or want handicap systems especially for league matches.

Should be level playing field and if not good enough then practice more or get used to losing....simples squeek,squeek.

Ideally there would be different divisions to enter in, but nowadays not enough players (in my clubs) so all into one bunch, the lower class players simply would not enter if no handicap, i mean if you struggle to make a 20 break, not worth paying good money to get slaughtered by a regular 70 break or over player ?? so would end up with a competition amongst maybe a dozen people

As John stated.. do that and you probably remove 95% of players in any league in the country - how would that be good for the game? A poor player who's playing regularly and enjoying a friendly game with a handicap is more likely to take his son out for a game and get him interested etc.

TBF most leagues in the country are played for fun amongst lots of different standard players. If you want to play off scratch against the elite, then there's intercounty or tours for you to have a go at... Or form a league with the remaining 6 players who'd still be playing if you make it off scratch.

[Bigmeek]

Good Afternoon
I am looking for a handicap system to introduce into our snooker league for next season can anyone help.
Cheers
Gordon

Would you be able to post up some details of your league and standard of player? The league I play in has about 250 players ranging from a few ex- pros to guys who are chuffed with a red black red. Roughly speaking about 25% of the players can knock in a big break and 25% would be happy with a 16. The bunch in the middle can do, say 30's or 40's. Our handicaps range from +45 to about -65 and are adjusted each season dependent on how well the player has performed. If a +45 guy wins all his games he's likely to be slashed to + 25 for the following season although if he started knocking in 50 breaks the handicap committee would adjust his handicap with immediate effect. Sounds a bit complicated but it's been in operation for donkey's years. You sometimes get a few complaints when new players join the league and claim a high handicap but they get caught out soon enough.

[jrc750]

... The league I play in has about 250 players .....

Jeez that's good

[Bigmeek]

Jeez that's good

Only about 33 teams tho split into 3 divisions. Not everyone gets a game every week as only 4 players in a team. Generally teams have a squad of about 7 or 8 players to provide for a bit of competition, holidays, sickness, loss of form etc. in my team if you lose a match you're relegated to the bench. Lol.
Google League Republic EICA and you should get it. Not a brilliant website I'm afraid but it's FREE.

[audiandy]

As I said in my earlier post, it all depends on how it is set up at the moment and how honest people are if it needs a starting handicap.
We have around 140 players in our league with 16 teams, it has been going years and we just changed the system a couple of years ago. W now change handicaps at the half way point in the season and at the start of the next. We started using the simplest system as we already had handicaps , where we plus or minus half a point per win or loss. It has not worked out to bad but we know that it will be a few seasons to bed in. Any new players that start are given a starting handicap of 20 unless they are known to be better then there handicap is changed each month for season and a half where as 1 point added or taken of per win / loss. The leagues handicaps range from -60 up to +40 with a cap of 60 start. The only thing that I feel should change to make this work better would be too seed the league where as the best handicapped players in each team play each other and so on.
As mentioned earlier in the thread if the league did not have any handicaps there would be around 30 people playing in the league which would be no good to anyone. To keep snooker alive we need to have handicaps in most leagues, on how good the handicap system is it is completely upto the people who run the leagues as there are countless ways to go about setting a system up.

[toppotter1967]

Hi All
Thank you for all your imput the problem we have is our league is dying, we are currently down to 2 divisions with rumours of even more teams pulling out, We consolidated 3 divisions into 2 last season and with 3rd div teams playing in the 2nd the gulf is huge and the same in the 1st div with some 2nd div teams now playing 1st div snooker. The lower teams are mostly getting heavily beat every week hence the need for a handicap system otherwise our league will die a death. I personally would not be happy having a handicap but it is needs must to secure the survival of our league. A link to our website is www.tauntonanddistrictsnookerleague.co.uk is anyone can suggest a good and fair system.

[toppotter1967]

www.tauntonanddistrictsnookerleague.co.uk this should give you all the details all our players are amatuers with some at a high standard.

Would you be able to post up some details of your league and standard of player? The league I play in has about 250 players ranging from a few ex- pros to guys who are chuffed with a red black red. Roughly speaking about 25% of the players can knock in a big break and 25% would be happy with a 16. The bunch in the middle can do, say 30's or 40's. Our handicaps range from +45 to about -65 and are adjusted each season dependent on how well the player has performed. If a +45 guy wins all his games he's likely to be slashed to + 25 for the following season although if he started knocking in 50 breaks the handicap committee would adjust his handicap with immediate effect. Sounds a bit complicated but it's been in operation for donkey's years. You sometimes get a few complaints when new players join the league and claim a high handicap but they get caught out soon enough.

[Bigmeek]

Thanks, had a quick look. Think you've got enough infornation to have a stab at individual handicaps. Without having detailed knowledge of the individuals I wouldn't be able to recommend something but maybe something simple like all the top players are scratch and everyone else gets a certain number of blacks from them. Say, for example, your top ranked player who has won 78% of his frames was scratch and the lowest ranked player, who has only won 10% of his frames was +49 (7 blacks), would that be fair? Could the top guy have a reasonable chance of beating the bottom guy and vice-Vera?
No matter what you decide it would take a couple of seasons to bed in.