Black only ball rule

[steve c11]

Hello I wonder if you can settle a dispute.

We was playing snooker the other night and I was four points clear with only the black ball left on the table. I tried to put the cue ball safe but in doing so I potted the white ball. My opponent then stated that I had lost the frame because I potted the white ball. I thought that it was a foul and that I would have to obviously give him the seven points which would then put him three points clear with still the black ball left.

Is the frame lost if a player pots the cue ball in a black only game? I would have thought that the players who has the next shot could opt to play the shot or make his opponent play again ?

Can you please clarify this rule and where it says what the rule is in the rules of snooker. I would be really grateful for a reply.

Regards.

Steve Collins

[jrc750]

You lose
1st pot or foul in a back ball game ends the frame, unless the foul then makes the scores tied, then it's a re spot

[SnkrRef]

You did lose the frame. When only black remains on the table then the first foul or pot will end the frame, the winner being the player with the most points on the board when the points from the pot/foul are added. Only if the scores are then level, will the black ball be spotted, a coin tossed to see who has choice as to whether to play first or second, and then the cue ball is played from in hand.

Just as a matter of practice, once there is a further pot or foul on the black, there will be seven points difference. I had one young player complete a match sheet a couple of weeks ago showing equal scores and a little asterisk and note to say he'd won the re-spot!

In aggregate scores matches the black ball would only ever be re-spotted in the event that the aggregate scores are level after the final frame has been completed.

[steve c11]

Cheers guys.

A bit of a crazy rule but then so are a lot of other rules as well. My opponent knew the rule but not all of the rule regarding the tie and then the re spot. Just a quick question for all you clever ones.....the miss rule. How on earth can you play that one where there is no ref? It will not be long before my playing partner wants to declare my foul as a deliberate miss. Surely only a ref in a match can decide that ?

[golferson123]

Black only ball rule

don't go there

[DeanH]

...and where it says what the rule is in the rules of snooker.

pg 15
Sec 3 rule 4 End of Frame, Game or Match
(a) When Black is the only object ball remaining on the table, the first score or foul ends the frame excepting only if the following conditions both apply:
(i) the scores are then equal; and
(ii) aggregate scores are not relevant.
(b) When both conditions in (a) above apply:
(i) the Black is spotted;
(ii) the players draw lots for choice of playing next;
(iii) the next player plays from in-hand; and
(iv) the next score or foul ends the frame.
(c) When aggregate scores determine the winner of a game or match, and the aggregate scores are equal at the end of the last frame, the players in that frame shall follow the procedure for a re-spotted Black set out in (b) above.

you can download the recent version from WS
http://www.worldsnooker.com/page/RulesofSnooker

Cheers guys.

A bit of a crazy rule but then so are a lot of other rules as well. My opponent knew the rule but not all of the rule regarding the tie and then the re spot. Just a quick question for all you clever ones.....the miss rule. How on earth can you play that one where there is no ref? It will not be long before my playing partner wants to declare my foul as a deliberate miss. Surely only a ref in a match can decide that ?

many amateur leagues dont play the miss rule, and many "friends" matches dont as well.
it is difficult as it is the most mis-understood rule out of the whole book (I know myself all too well ); so to apply it, at least one person in the group must know it very well; with only two people I.e. no non-player to act as ref), it is common practise that the non-striker acts as the referee for that turn.
There are a few threads already which discuss this very subject, have a look around.

[DeanH]

don't go there

yep
.......

[steve c11]

Thanks very much DeanH

[magicman]

Cheers guys.

A bit of a crazy rule but then so are a lot of other rules as well. My opponent knew the rule but not all of the rule regarding the tie and then the re spot. Just a quick question for all you clever ones.....the miss rule. How on earth can you play that one where there is no ref? It will not be long before my playing partner wants to declare my foul as a deliberate miss. Surely only a ref in a match can decide that ?

As DeanH says the non-player is always the ref, so what he says goes. It's true that most amateurs don't play the miss rule, but I think they're missing out, no pun intended! You learn a lot about angles, application of side, and pace needed to travel distances. Instead of whingeing or whining about the rules, imo players should learn to play by them. That said, I don't agree with the rule as I think it's poorly constructed, but never-the-less it is a rule and shouldn't be ignored any more than giving 7 points away for going in-off a black, or in your case - losing the frame.

[steve c11]

As DeanH says the non-player is always the ref, so what he says goes. It's true that most amateurs don't play the miss rule, but I think they're missing out, no pun intended! You learn a lot about angles, application of side, and pace needed to travel distances. Instead of whingeing or whining about the rules, imo players should learn to play by them. That said, I don't agree with the rule as I think it's poorly constructed, but never-the-less it is a rule and shouldn't be ignored any more than giving 7 points away for going in-off a black, or in your case - losing the frame.

Ouch. Remember never to play you in snooker.

[DeanH]

As DeanH says the non-player is always the ref, so what he says goes.

A tad dramtic
It is just something I have always known in all the clubs and partners I have played, like an unwritten rule.
Also I think it is common courtesy, to assist the striker, as you would like to be assisted when you are the striker.

It's true that most amateurs don't play the miss rule, but I think they're missing out, no pun intended! You learn a lot about angles, application of side, and pace needed to travel distances. Instead of whingeing or whining about the rules, imo players should learn to play by them. That said, I don't agree with the rule as I think it's poorly constructed, but never-the-less it is a rule and shouldn't be ignored any more than giving 7 points away for going in-off a black, or in your case - losing the frame.

I do agree that the F&M it is not well written but it is a challenging concept to write down
The last rerwrite (Aug14) is better (and shorter) so heading in the right direction
As mention before when friends and I play we dont use the rule, but we do discuss it at the appropriate time, as in "with the F&M this would be the options and why...". Many of my playing partners are "old school" and they still call it the "new" rule (expletives removed), even though it has been in existance since 1995