Ball on Edge of Pocket

[DeanH]

Just watching the Walden/Milkens match, Walden did a thin cut of a red to a corner pocket, it slowly rolls to the jaws then pauses and then drops. Joe Johnson says "...has three seconds to drop...".

Where does he get this "3-second" from? I cant find anything written anywhere?

Only last night at Pool league we had a similar discussion and a friend said he was told by a ref at a pool tournament that a ball has 6 seconds "apparently stationary" to drop, if it drops after that it does not count and would be replaced and no foul.
Again no one can find any written guidelines that state any actual time duration.

[Bigmeek]

It's not in the rules anywhere Dean but a lot of people think it is.

[DeanH]

yep, not in any rules
I have check various "guidelines" sites as well and not seen anything (snooker or pool).
cheers

[Bigmeek]

I think the rules uses the word "momentarily". I remember having a chat about this with a ref and got his opinion. From memory a ref would decide whether the ball dropping was all part of the same shot or not rather than a time limit. If the striker has left the table when the ball drops then it would probably have to be replaced.

[DeanH]

Very similar to the conversation last night.
My thoughts were if the drop was still considered as part of the shot with no time duration considered, then it counts; and yes also if the player had left the table, i.e. indicating his turn has finished, then yes maybe it would be replaced; if the player was still at the table and "praying" for the drop then maybe the turn has not finished

definitely an "at that moment" scenario decision.

[DeanH]

yep "momentarily"

sec 3 Rule 9(c)
"If a ball balances momentarily on the edge of a pocket and then falls in; it shall count as in the pocket and not be replaced."

this was definitely the definition of the Walden shot

it is this "3 seconds" (or "6 seconds" from my pool mate) mentioned that gets me

[bolton-cueman]

for a former World Champion Joe Johnson's commentary is pretty clueless IMHO.

Why Eurosport got rid of Neal Foulds I have no idea.

[Bigmeek]

If you think about it purely from a practical standpoint then having a specific time limit would mean the ref would have to have a stop watch to be able to decide if something was 2.99 seconds or 3.01 seconds. Unworkable. Ref has to decide depending on the situation. Not difficult really. If the ball drops after Mags has slammed his cue on the floor or The Hitman Holt has rapped his knuckles on the rail, then the ball should be replaced lol.

[billabong]

In blackball, it's 5 seconds

rule 4p (a)

Like previous post, not sure how they measure it ( 4.5, or 5.5 seconds, etc )

[DeanH]

thanks for that
I don't play Black Ball so not really looked at those rules

[Neil Taperell]

for a former World Champion Joe Johnson's commentary is pretty clueless IMHO.

Why Eurosport got rid of Neal Foulds I have no idea.

I believe that Neal Foulds works for Ladbrokes on their Radio that gets supplied to all their shops . Not heard him for a bit but is very up on greyhound racing .

[SnkrRef]

There is nothing in the rules or any guidelines setting a time limit for 'momentarily'. However, 3 seconds is a pretty good rule of thumb. As has been mentioned already, without a stopwatch it is impossible to make an accurate timing, so any decision is going to be subjective.

Whether the striker has left the table is immaterial, as the turn is not complete until the striker has left the table AND all balls have come to rest for the final stroke.

[DeanH]

thanks for that, yes above I did mean "AND"
So a defined time duration has never been in any official snooker rules or Referee guidelines?

SRA does not mention any time duration.

[SnkrRef]

thanks for that, yes above I did mean "AND"
So a defined time duration has never been in any official snooker rules or Referee guidelines?

SRA does not mention any time duration.

I can't say never, but certainly not for the last 25 years!

[DeanH]

I can't say never, but certainly not for the last 25 years!

cheers
....