Balls - An argument in a club about what type...

[jigsaw333]

Rifle,
Thats correct Super Crystallite was used before that Crystallite and before that others including Ivory and wood.
The change took place quietly in the 90's I think.
Aramith balls are made by Saluc who bought The Composite?? Company in the 80's
They still make a Super Cr(i)stallite ball - but you don't appear to buy them anyway. see www.saluc.com

[screw]

Balls - An argument in a club about what type...

Ok so was there a big difference ( if any ) in weight of the super crystalite as opposed to the tc's?

[jigsaw333]

Vmax,

By the sounds of it a lot of people are still using the old SC's. Not by choice though. It's all the clubs provide.
The white was also whiter. But that changed to a duller colour because of more modern and brighter lighting conditions. Otherwise the white is too bright.

[jigsaw333]

Don't think there was a big difference. I think the ones in my club are SC's and they're 129g ish. But the Crystallites were heavier than that.
So really we have gone full circle, because TC's are 142g Just different materials with different properties give different reactions.

Crystallites were dull, SC's not dull, TC's springy or lively.
You certainly notice when splitting the pack they just don't hardly move with C or SC but with TC or 1G they spread easily. Top is more pronounced with TC and 1G also

[screw]

Balls - An argument in a club about what type...

Ok thanks.. Over and out.

[itsnoteasy]

Does anyone else on this forum still play with a set of super crystalates. These balls haven't been manufactured for over thirty years or more but even so the set at our club play better than a new set of TC's.
If anyone plays at a club that uses an old set of balls with a lighter coloured blue as opposed to the darker coloured blue that Aramith make, then they could be supers.
Watch old video footage of about pre 1990 and you will see that the blue is a lighter colour, it's the only visual difference I can think of.

I think a couple of the wmc around here have them, the blue is certainly a lot lighter.

[DeanH]

For just a point of interest
When Crystallate balls were being developed and promoted, in the magazines at the time (1910-1920 ish) there were many saying that Ivory is the best and the new-fangled composite balls were rubbish. There were tournaments which were advertised as using Ivory or Crystallate balls and when a new high break was accomplished, they would note what type of balls were used...
Many letters to the magazines had many discussions as to the Ivory-camp or the Composite-camp, much in the same vein as the SC-Phenolic discussions today

[Terry Davidson]

All down to money tho Terry, 10 sets of balls ain't cheap, and you can forget the re cloth! Got the best table only done if a pro was booked

There's nothing to say they have to buy 10 sets at the same time. They could buy 5 sets every 2 years or even 2 sets every 5 years although I suspect the players would always be trying to get the 1G or TC balls and also the balls would get mixed up.

[sberry]

it's not unusual for clubs to have different sets for match tables or match nights but people are exaggerating the difference, to say the lighter crystallates don't split as well or play as well is balls, there is a difference but it's not massive - watch a good player on the standard club table and he will knock in ton after ton with whatever is there

good salesmen will always convince you can't take your game to the right level without this or that but you really need to think more about practice than trying to buy your way to the next level, that never works

if you can play well you can win frame after frame in one visit with a club cue and a dodgy elk tip and light balls, swapping to a JP with a laminated tip and 1gs won't make a jot of difference if you can't play to that standard anyway, you'll just find another excuse

[cantpotforshíte]

if you can play well you can win frame after frame in one visit with a club cue and a dodgy elk tip and light balls, swapping to a JP with a laminated tip and 1gs won't make a jot of difference if you can't play to that standard anyway, you'll just find another excuse

Even if you can play well (regular century standard), you will not be able to score heavily with a 129g white ball with object balls that weigh 142g. That's the biggest problem that I've come across. The white ball often finishes a matter of feet from where it should be, even on relatively simple shots. It's a leveller. It brings the scoring of a good player who practises regularly down to the level of a hacker who plays once a week.

[jigsaw333]

Sberry is right.

You can make centuries with C/SC/Economy balls/TC/1G/Ivory etc. have done so myself, NOT the ivory ones though I'm not THAT old... yet.
Made many centuries in my local club with the standard balls there. Don't even think they are SC. But you definitely really struggle breaking the pack. It can be done. The balls will spread much easier with the TC/1G and nudges and kisses around the black are much better especially in forward motion. Running of the edge of the pack etc. You can top the balls around the angles easily.

There is also not a great deal of difference between the 129g (Premier) and the 142g (TC/1G) Not that most players would notice.

My original issue is going from an old composite 129g practice ball (as supplied) to 142g TC in matches. The difference is undeniable.

The point is, I want to try and stop players using one compound and weight ball for practice and another weight and compound for matches.
A lot of their practice time is wasted switching between the two. Having to adjust all the time. Believe me the difference between the two (practice and match balls) in our club in very pronounced.
And find out if other clubs had overcome this problem yet and if there was a 'recommended' and endorsed standard. Obviously not by reading your comments.

If I ran a club again, I would want the best from the players, see their break building ability improve, match play improve, overall enjoyment of the game improve.
Switching balls all the time is only making a hard game harder.

[jigsaw333]

Rifle,
I agree.
Perhaps these guys should stop using the TC's for matches. But they can't as the other clubs have them.
It's a no win here. The only solution is to get the club to buy TC's for standard use.
That's what we are trying to achieve. By posting this thread.

Seems that we are very much not alone with this.

[vmax4steve]

Found these balls on ebay this afternoon, an original set of real SC's, two sets of phenolic resin SC's, one with a dark coloured blue and one with a lighter coloured blue, so that's my theory done for then and a set of Vitalite billiard balls. The canadians used Vitalite snooker balls and Cliff Thorburn was known as the maximum man in Canada when using these lighter balls but on moving to the UK and playing with the heavier SC's he couldn't move them around as well with his cue action and became The Grinder.

Maybe Terry can enlighten us on these balls ??

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Just to throw a spanner in the works. I think the Super Aramith Pro Cup mumps ball has more travel, even though it's identical in weight and material to a regular 1G cue ball. I don't know why, but it it's true. And it's bright white, not creamy. I love this ball.

Measles, not mumps.

[jigsaw333]

I have the measles balls too, a 129g and 142g Aramith and they are both the same off white as a TC/1G ball.
Picked up the 129g off of jcr750 a few days ago. I've not really used either yet. So will give it a go today.

Anybody have a trick white they want to sell?

Mine has gone a dark creamy colour. Mine you, its about 40 years old..
Want to use it on a particular committee member... Just for giggles