Black Ball

[farooq]

Hi guys, my question may seem a bit childish but any how here it goes...

One rule of snooker suggests that foul on black ball means the player commiting it looses the frame... However on a few occasions I have seen professional players with high numbers making some foul on black and still winning the frame.....

Kind of confused...

[Ramon]

Not at all Faroog , i'll give it a try to explain this !! if the Game is black ballgame (both players need black to win) and you make a foul on black then you lose the game !!! unless you are already high in SCRS !! in that case does'nt matter !! you can still win the frame !!

[farooq]

Ok this makes sense...

Once I heard from a senior player that in a black ball game if a player makes a foul the other player is credited with 7 points....

Always doubted that....

[Ramon]

unless the difference in SCRS is exactly 7 points. For example: Player A: 83 points Player B: 76 points. if player A makes a foul on black. then player B gets 7 points and black coms back on the table !!! and then due to my previous post above ( The one who makes a foul on black 'll loss The game ).

[farooq]

Ok...

So if the difference between two players is 7 or less any player making a foul on black is penalized 7....

But if the difference of points is greater than 7.... The player with low marks losses the game on making a foul.....

[Ramon]

Yes !! !! When you make a foul on black, your opponent always gets 7 points !! so, if you both need black to win the one who makes a foul on black 'll loses the frame !!!

[billabong]

Ok...

So if the difference between two players is 7 or less any player making a foul on black is penalized 7....

But if the difference of points is greater than 7.... The player with low marks losses the game on making a foul.....

Not penalized 7, the opponent is awarded 7 points for the foul. You only get 1 foul when only black remaining, so

game ends, unless this foul makes the points equal.

That results in a re-spotted black, same no matter how high a break you score leading up to potting the final black, to tie the scores.

[DeanH]

Hi guys, my question may seem a bit childish but any how here it goes...

One rule of snooker suggests that foul on black ball means the player commiting it looses the frame... However on a few occasions I have seen professional players with high numbers making some foul on black and still winning the frame.....Kind of confused...

That was probably when the Black was NOT the only ball on the table.

The rule you are alluding to is probably Sec 3.4 End of Frame, Game or Match
(a) When Black is the only object ball remaining on the table, the first score or foul ends the frame excepting only if the following conditions both apply:
(i) the scores are then equal; and
(ii) aggregate scores are not relevant.
the important words are "...when Black is the only object ball remaining on the table..." the first pot or foul end the frame and the player with the most points (after the awarded penalty added) wins the frame - this could be either player.
If the scores are now equal, then a Respot Black occurs as discussed above.

If the Black is not the only ball on the table then, a foul on the Black does not end the frame, penalty points are awarded and play continues.

[Master Blaster]

That was probably when the Black was NOT the only ball on the table.

The rule you are alluding to is probably Sec 3.4 End of Frame, Game or Match
(a) When Black is the only object ball remaining on the table, the first score or foul ends the frame excepting only if the following conditions both apply:
(i) the scores are then equal; and
(ii) aggregate scores are not relevant.
the important words are "...when Black is the only object ball remaining on the table..." the first pot or foul end the frame and the player with the most points (after the awarded penalty added) wins the frame - this could be either player.
If the scores are now equal, then a Respot Black occurs as discussed above.

If the Black is not the only ball on the table then, a foul on the Black does not end the frame, penalty points are awarded and play continues.

So if player B (60pts) needed a snooker and player A (68pts) has potted the black and gone in off afterwards (having potted the pink), the game is still over and the black is not respotted and player B does receive the 7pts to make a total of 67pts but he still loses the frame?

[Terry Davidson]

So if player B (60pts) needed a snooker and player A (68pts) has potted the black and gone in off afterwards (having potted the pink), the game is still over and the black is not respotted and player B does receive the 7pts to make a total of 67pts but he still loses the frame?

He gets awarded the 7 points, but the score becomes 68-67 and he still loses the frame

[DeanH]

As TD states Player B would get the penalty points but would still loss the frame as Player A has more points.

A couple of pointers:
1. Player A could have decided not to play the Black, as stated in Rule sec2.1(b) a frame is completed when the striker claims the frame when the Black is the only ball on the table and he has more than 7 points difference in his favour.
2. How many time shave we seen on TV the player (usually at the end of a high break) whack the black and foul, yes the non-offender gets the penalty points but the offender still wins due to having the higher score.

[Master Blaster]

As TD states Player B would get the penalty points but would still loss the frame as Player A has more points.

A couple of pointers:
1. Player A could have decided not to play the Black, as stated in Rule sec2.1(b) a frame is completed when the striker claims the frame when the Black is the only ball on the table and he has more than 7 points difference in his favour.
2. How many time shave we seen on TV the player (usually at the end of a high break) whack the black and foul, yes the non-offender gets the penalty points but the offender still wins due to having the higher score.

Yes, conversely, I remember Mark Allen potting a black and going in off and losing frame and match I think (the difference between the two players was less than 7pts). I think he was in front as well, but the black wasn't respotted because the foul took his opponent into the lead with higher points. Do you remember this Deano?

[DeanH]

Black Ball

oh good recall
I do remember it but can't name the event.
maybe Odrl or other can assist

[jrc750]

oh good recall
I do remember it but can't name the event.
maybe Odrl or other can assist

Here you go, fast forward to near the end
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf9lF1ZiEHA

[DeanH]

thanks for that JRC