One Most Prominent Bad Quality of Pro Players

[_Harry_Potter_]

We all discuss about pro players game and how they can perform so well in pressure conditions and make 147 and what not!
But these players have some of the bad qualities (both in game and in personal life).
I was wondering if fellow forum members can list one most prominent bad qualities of pro players like -

Ronnie O'Sullivan
Mark Selby
Jimmy White
Steve Davis
Mark Davis
Ding Junhui
Neil Robertson
Judd Trump
John Higgins
Mark Williams
G. Dott
Peter Ebdon (Apart from his unavoidable color blindness)


The idea of this thread is to have a spicy discussion about their game and personal life but also to learn where even pro players make mistakes in their games and how to keep check on that while playing yourself!

[tomwalker147]

Ronnie O'Sullivan-mentally inept
Mark Selby- no idea, didn't show many bad qualities when he had a max against me in May.
Jimmy White- Lack of bottle. Alcohol/drugs. If he had the same professional approach as Davis/Hendry he'd of won a world.
Steve Davis-Long potting? difficult to say, im not old enough to remember the Davis of old unfortunately.
Mark Davis- not sure.Very steady in all departments but not great in any.
Ding Junhui- Concentration or bottle. I can't decide which but there must be a reason why he wins tournaments but struggles at the crucible each year.
Neil Robertson-Takes too long on some shots, otherwise all round superb.
Judd Trump- Goes for too many but that's why he's exciting to watch.
John Higgins- Couldn't list any.
Mark Williams- Known for being laid back, is he too laid back? Hard to argue that as he's won so much in the game. Would he have won more if he'd been more regimented?
G. Dott- A good all round player but not 'great' in all departments.
Peter Ebdon- Speed around the table? It worked for him though he won the world title.

Just my opinions

[tetricky]

All good players. For me there are a number of groups.

There are those who could beat anyone on their day, and these that (in their pomp) could beat anyone, on any day. Steve Davis, Stephen Hendry, John Higgins. Exceptional knowledge of all aspects of the game, Good balance between safety and attacking play (for their era's), Great mental attributes. Cue ball on a string. Ronnie could/should/would join this bunch, or even head it, except sometimes he's just not there, or doesn't want to be. The best physical skills, and a mental side that just drops him out of that group....but on it, he beats everyone. Robertson nearly there, but falls a little short in knowledge of all aspects of the game (but wins on potting!)...but has improved so much. Ding close too....but for that x factor at the ultimate level.

Then there's the 'matchplay' group. Very good all around players, great knowledge of the game, dogged competitors, but don't really make the balls sing. You have to kill them and dig them out to get past them, though. Ebdon, Selby, Dott....and to a lesser extent Mark Davis. Probably don't score heavy enough, often enough.

Then there's the potters. They take on mad stuff, and if they have a day where they've got it you're going to lose to them...but those days don't come in big enough clusters, often enough. White, Williams, Trump (although Williams is a little better than this suggests...but his positional frailty drops him into this group). Can lose the white, or take on something silly and leave their opponent in.

Which is not to say that they don't possess some of the attributes of other groups. Pretty much any pro can play all the shots (apart from some of the batsh!t one in ten, or even one in a hundred, shots that the potters sometimes play in competition). What differentiates their styles is shot selection, nerve, and ability to execute the lower percentage shots, under the bigger pressure....and concentration, of course. It's tempting to say, for example that Ronnie is mentally weak....but when he's on it, his levels of focus and concentration are immense.

Just my thoughts, you'd have to be a better snooker player than me to really get it...but that's how I read it (broadly, and taking short cuts in explaining it, so we're not here all day...).

[Byrom]

Well how can we be overly cortical of any player who has made millions out of the game we all pay to play?

[mikeyd100]

May I add one bad quality :

John Higgins : For his ability to potentially swallow 300,000 euros hahaaa

[Inoffthered]

Jimmy White- Lack of bottle. Alcohol/drugs. If he had the same professional approach as Davis/Hendry he'd of won a world.

To play in the manner that he DID play, demonstrates that Jimmy had plenty of bottle. If he'd potted 'that' red with the rest in his 1982 semi vs Alex and had gone on to win the world title that year, I think he might have won at least 3 or 4 WC's IMHO.

Steve Davis-Long potting? difficult to say, im not old enough to remember the Davis of old unfortunately.

Davis in the early 80's. Used to pot a long red. Get in. Frame over.

[dcrackers147]

Agreed Davis in his prime was the full package and the bench mark for the modern game. This is a pretty pointless thread as previously mentioned they all must have reasonable character to make millions from the game as plenty of great players never even turn pro due to the mental side of peforming when it matters.

[tomwalker147]

Well how can we be overly cortical of any player who has made millions out of the game we all pay to play?

We can all have an opinion, as good as the best pro's are they will have facets of their game that could be stronger. Pundits criticise Messi and Ronaldo, so i'm unsure why we aren't allowed to comment on Mark Davis!

[_Harry_Potter_]

We can all have an opinion, as good as the best pro's are they will have facets of their game that could be stronger. Pundits criticise Messi and Ronaldo, so i'm unsure why we aren't allowed to comment on Mark Davis!

Agree on that. That was my idea of this thread from the beginning. Nobody is perfect! So there must be something in every player that can be improved.
Infact, I thought Ding to be pretty flawless player (My favorite will always be Ronnie), little did I know that Ding is overly emotional and get nervous at the big events like that of crucible. I didn't know that earlier and I found it from you guys!!

[vmax4steve]

It ain't what you do it's the way that you do it, you can be Georgie Best and take on three defenders and go round the keeper, or you can be Christiano Ronaldo and go down for the penalty, the outcome is the same. It's all about how much you believe in your own ability, how great is your need to show it and how brave you are to take them on.

All the players mentioned are as good as each other on the practise table, so all are separated by different degrees of self belief.

[Odrl]

little did I know that Ding is overly emotional and get nervous at the big events like that of crucible.

Yes, but the Crucible is pretty much where Ding's problems end. Apart from his underwhelming WC record, his performances on the big stage throughout his career have been fine. He has won two UK Championship titles and one Masters title, and he has also won 9 of the 12 major ranking finals he has appeared in, which is quite possibly the most impressive ratio of any player in recent times. :wink:

[Stevie]

What a great thread, this is one question I think about when analyzing what makes the great's great, everyone know Ronnie on his day is awesome and Hendry is a machine. I think a good counter question is what makes them who they are for example Greame Dott in my opinion is a very decent player but what gets him into the equation is his determination and what has held him back at times is his self belief.

......................................Bad Quality ................................................. Ace up the sleeve
Ronnie O'Sullivan...........Lack of desire to win.....................................All round game and B game is to die for
Mark Selby....................Playing wise, none........................................Solid under pressure
Jimmy White.................Nerves when it mattered maybe?..................Awesome when he could just flow
Steve Davis..................None....................... ......................................Had the tactical beating of anyone
Ding Junhui..................Too much pressure on him..............................Knowledge of the table is unrivaled
Neil Robertson.............Speed, doesn't flow and becomes negative.......Very consistent shot routine, long potting
Judd Trump.................Too aggressive/ risky sometimes......................Determined to learn and is rising fast
John Higgins................None....................... ......................................Can play any style frame to an awesome level
Mark Williams..............Positional play.............................................. ..Will to win is fantastic
G. Dott........................Appears to lack self belief................................but does his absolute best to win
Peter Ebdon.................Mind games/ lack of concentration at times .....Self belief

Shaun Murphy... why, with the game he has does he not win more? I'd like to see him knock the professionalism in the head a bit, forget about the nice guy thing (which is all good but...) I think it costs him focus, a lot of focus on the table

[_Harry_Potter_]

What a great thread, this is one question I think about when analyzing what makes the great's great, everyone know Ronnie on his day is awesome and Hendry is a machine. I think a good counter question is what makes them who they are for example Greame Dott in my opinion is a very decent player but what gets him into the equation is his determination and what has held him back at times is his self belief.

......................................Bad Quality ................................................. Ace up the sleeve
Ronnie O'Sullivan...........Lack of desire to win.....................................All round game and B game is to die for
Mark Selby....................Playing wise, none........................................Solid under pressure
Jimmy White.................Nerves when it mattered maybe?..................Awesome when he could just flow
Steve Davis..................None....................... ......................................Had the tactical beating of anyone
Ding Junhui..................Too much pressure on him..............................Knowledge of the table is unrivaled
Neil Robertson.............Speed, doesn't flow and becomes negative.......Very consistent shot routine, long potting
Judd Trump.................Too aggressive/ risky sometimes......................Determined to learn and is rising fast
John Higgins................None....................... ......................................Can play any style frame to an awesome level
Mark Williams..............Positional play.............................................. ..Will to win is fantastic
G. Dott........................Appears to lack self belief................................but does his absolute best to win
Peter Ebdon.................Mind games/ lack of concentration at times .....Self belief

Shaun Murphy... why, with the game he has does he not win more? I'd like to see him knock the professionalism in the head a bit, forget about the nice guy thing (which is all good but...) I think it costs him focus, a lot of focus on the table

Now that's more like it. Nice answer well worth the question !

[dcrackers147]

What a great thread, this is one question I think about when analyzing what makes the great's great, everyone know Ronnie on his day is awesome and Hendry is a machine. I think a good counter question is what makes them who they are for example Greame Dott in my opinion is a very decent player but what gets him into the equation is his determination and what has held him back at times is his self belief.

......................................Bad Quality ................................................. Ace up the sleeve
Ronnie O'Sullivan...........Lack of desire to win.....................................All round game and B game is to die for
Mark Selby....................Playing wise, none........................................Solid under pressure
Jimmy White.................Nerves when it mattered maybe?..................Awesome when he could just flow
Steve Davis..................None....................... ......................................Had the tactical beating of anyone
Ding Junhui..................Too much pressure on him..............................Knowledge of the table is unrivaled
Neil Robertson.............Speed, doesn't flow and becomes negative.......Very consistent shot routine, long potting
Judd Trump.................Too aggressive/ risky sometimes......................Determined to learn and is rising fast
John Higgins................None....................... ......................................Can play any style frame to an awesome level
Mark Williams..............Positional play.............................................. ..Will to win is fantastic
G. Dott........................Appears to lack self belief................................but does his absolute best to win
Peter Ebdon.................Mind games/ lack of concentration at times .....Self belief

Shaun Murphy... why, with the game he has does he not win more? I'd like to see him knock the professionalism in the head a bit, forget about the nice guy thing (which is all good but...) I think it costs him focus, a lot of focus on the table

How can you give ROS bad quality but not give Higgins or Davis any. Higgins bad quality to much length on his bridge which he has only recently started to reduce. Davis became overly obsessed with the technical side of snooker when he was less successful tried to mimic other players towards the end of his career.

[Stevie]

Maybe, just maybe I was referring to players in their prime, just like you did