If snookers are needed rule

[raulch]

Hello,
I need some help with a rule..
In case a player needs 2 or more snookers to be able to win the match, are those snookers supposed to be different ones, or can he make the opponent re-take a shot ( from a snookered position) as many times as he wishes?

Thank you.

[Tommykiid]

To the best of my knowledge you cant put them back if snookers are required

[itsnoteasy]

As far as I know,If you need snookers a foul and a miss can't be called, so you can't replace the cue ball, but you can make them play again from where the cue ball lands, so if he misses but snookers himself behind a ball you can ask him to play from there.

[DeanH]

As said above, if penalty points ("snookers") are needed then a Miss wont be called and replacing the balls is not an option. Two options left, play from where the balls lie yourself or have the offender play again, as many times as you lie.
so to answer your OP, the "snookers" will be "different ones"

of course, as penalty points are required, he can concede the frame

[Londonlad147]

A miss CAN be called when 'snookers' are required, but only in two circumstances:

1) when the referee does not believe the miss was accidental (ie he thinks he deliberately missed); and
2) if a miss has been called when snookers weren't required but there was central full ball contact available, then a second and possibly third miss can be called regardless of the scores.

[DeanH]

A miss CAN be called when 'snookers' are required, but only in two circumstances:
1) when the referee does not believe the miss was accidental (ie he thinks he deliberately missed); and
2) if a miss has been called when snookers weren't required but there was central full ball contact available, then a second and possibly third miss can be called regardless of the scores.

after answering I got the rules out and having another read and saw as per your points:
1) a deliberate miss
2) as you say; 1st Miss no penalty points required before or as a result of; 2nd attempt and penalty points as a result of are now required but with a full contact possible, Miss will be called, and again possible 3rd and loss of frame.

do you have the flowchart of the SRA of deciding F&M, that you can post?

[Londonlad147]

Only seen PDF copies of the flow chart which you don't seem to be able to post here. A copy is available on the Facebook Rules & Referees group under 'Files'.

[DeanH]

got it

[Londonlad147]

got it

I have to say, excellent as it is, it should say 'can BOTH players WIN with the points on the table, both before and after the stroke?'. Although your version is dated August 2014, there is an updated version also dated August 2014 which removes the words 'OR TIE'. Both players need to be able to win with the points available.

[raulch]

thank you for the answers!

[DeanH]

Thanks LondonLad for the information and update.
I have now sourced the updated version from SRA.
As you say it now says "can striker win", when to me it should be "can either player win or tie" and also the reference is incorrect, not 3.14.c but to 3.14.a(i) and (ii); I have passed my thoughts to SRA, see what they come back with

[Londonlad147]

Thanks LondonLad for the information and update.
I have now sourced the updated version from SRA.
As you say it now says "can striker win", when to me it should be "can either player win or tie" and also the reference is incorrect, not 3.14.c but to 3.14.a(i) and (ii); I have passed my thoughts to SRA, see what they come back with

No, it should be can both players win (before and after the stroke). Being able to tie is no longer good enough (since 2011).

[DeanH]

No, it should be can both players win (before and after the stroke). Being able to tie is no longer good enough (since 2011).

yep both can win, not just striker

yep the Tie is now only two options, not a Miss per se
cheers