Rules question :)

[mythman69]

Player A plays a shot and leaves the last red ball sitting right on the edge of the top pocket and player A walks away. Then player B (me) is snookered. I take my time to work out how to get out of the snooker. I play off 2 cushions. The cue ball is heading towards the red - looking really good - cue ball is just about to hit red but the red ball falls into pocket just before cue ball hits it and the cue ball follows it in.

So what happens? Is it just bad luck and costs a 4 point foul.

Or is it replaced and the cue ball is replaced too?

[snookerdad]

All balls are replaced without penalty and the shot is played again.

[Londonlad147]

As Tim said- 3.9(b)(i) applies.

9. Ball on Edge of Pocket
When a ball falls into a pocket without being hit by another ball, and:
(a) Being no part of any stroke in progress, it shall be replaced and any points previously scored shall count.
(b) If it would have been hit by any ball involved in a stroke:
(i) with no infringement of these Rules (including cases where an infringement would have occurred but for the ball falling into a pocket), all balls will be replaced and the same stroke played again, or a different stroke may be played at his discretion, by the same striker;
(ii) if a foul is committed, the striker incurs the penalty prescribed in Section 3 Rule 10, all balls will be replaced and the next player has the usual options after a foul.
(c) If a ball balances momentarily on the edge of a pocket and then falls in; it shall count as in the pocket and not be replaced.

[mythman69]

All balls are replaced without penalty and the shot is played again.

But when you read the rules it says:

Section 3 - Snooker 9. Ball on Edge of Pocket When a ball falls into a pocket without being hit by another ball, and: (a) Being no part of any stroke in progress, it shall be replaced and any points previously scored shall count. (b) If it would have been hit by any ball involved in a stroke: (i) with no infringement of these Rules (including cases where an infringement would have occurred but for the ball falling into a pocket), all balls will be replaced and the same stroke played again, or a different stroke may be played at his discretion, by the same striker; (ii) if a foul is committed, the striker incurs the penalty prescribed in Section 3 Rule 10, all balls will be replaced and the next player has the usual options after a foul. (c) If a ball balances momentarily on the edge of a pocket and then falls in; it shall count as in the pocket and not be replaced.

It seems to me to be the right thing to replace the balls, but a foul was committed (not hitting the red and/or going in-off) even though it was impossible to hit the ball and the blocked pocket was suddenly open. Or does it mean if say I hit the pink on the way to the red before or even after the red falls in it is then a foul?

Bit confused. Thanks!

[Londonlad147]

It seems to me to be the right thing to replace the balls, but a foul was committed (not hitting the red and/or going in-off) even though it was impossible to hit the ball and the blocked pocket was suddenly open. Or does it mean if say I hit the pink on the way to the red before or even after the red falls in it is then a foul?

Bit confused. Thanks!

If you read )b)(i) again...

(b) If it would have been hit by any ball involved in a stroke:
(i) with no infringement of these Rules (including cases where an infringement would have occurred but for the ball falling into a pocket), all balls will be replaced and the same stroke played again, or a different stroke may be played at his discretion, by the same striker;

The way you're looking at it the (non-existent) foul only happens because the ball has already dropped in the pocket. (b)(ii) is intended to deal with situations where another foul has already occurred (such as fouling a ball with your shirt sleeve, hitting a ball not on, playing a push/jump shot, etc. If there have been no other infringements, then there is no foul... even if a player had, say played a thin cut on the red into the centre, missed it completely, only to see the cue ball heading for the black hanging over the corner pocket which falls in before it is struck by the cue ball. The striker has got lucky in that case and gets a second attempt at his thin cut!

[mythman69]

If you read )b)(i) again...

(b) If it would have been hit by any ball involved in a stroke:
(i) with no infringement of these Rules (including cases where an infringement would have occurred but for the ball falling into a pocket), all balls will be replaced and the same stroke played again, or a different stroke may be played at his discretion, by the same striker;

The way you're looking at it the (non-existent) foul only happens because the ball has already dropped in the pocket. (b)(ii) is intended to deal with situations where another foul has already occurred (such as fouling a ball with your shirt sleeve, hitting a ball not on, playing a push/jump shot, etc. If there have been no other infringements, then there is no foul... even if a player had, say played a thin cut on the red into the centre, missed it completely, only to see the cue ball heading for the black hanging over the corner pocket which falls in before it is struck by the cue ball. The striker has got lucky in that case and gets a second attempt at his thin cut!

Thanks! So I would reset both balls and try and get out of the snooker again. Knowing my luck I would miss the next attempt and leave the red on and the other player cleans up. Still not the rules fault. LOL

[Londonlad147]

Thanks! So I would reset both balls and try and get out of the snooker again. Knowing my luck I would miss the next attempt and leave the red on and the other player cleans up. Still not the rules fault. LOL

Yes, it could work against you, as in your example, or for you, as in the example I gave in my last post. Rub of the green, as they say.