Foul while Snookered by touching black, how many points deduction?

[hoknavla]

Hi gurus

This evening while in a practice game with my sparring partner, I was snookered. the ball to hit is the yellow. As you will see from the picture , I was snookered by a touching black ball. I did not manage to break the snooker, completely missing the yellow.

Question is: how many point deduction? 4 or 7? I was told by my partner that it should be a 7 point deduction since the white is already touching the black ball. I disagreed and said that it should be a 4 pt deduction. Can anyone offer the right answer?

We don't use the miss rule in our friendly games.

Thanks!!

Picture below
http://imgur.com/VmRYkV0

[jrc750]

Just 4 point foul, as long as black didn't move

[Booters]

If you were to hit the black you would award your opponent 7 points, but using that logic that your partner used then regardless whether you hit the yellow or not you would give away 7 points as you are touching the black. I think the fact that it is a touching ball should be ignored and it should just be a standard 4 point foul.

I don't base that on any in depth knowledge of the rules that seems logical to me

[DeanH]

4 points
for not hitting the ball on (yellow)

as the rule for penalty points states - value of the ball on or any higher ball value fouled. (say 5 if you had hit the blue)

the touching ball on the black doesn't count unless the black moved as a result of your stroke.

note: if the black moves as you clearly play away from the black it is usually not a foul as it is deemed the blacked rolled into a mark in the cloth.
of course if you play into the black directly then it would be a foul and 7 penalty points (black being higher value than the ball on).

[DeanH]

Foul while Snookered by touching black, how many points deduction?

three replies in 5 seconds of each other

[DeanH]

Foul while Snookered by touching black, how many points deduction?

got to say a nice snooker played by your friend

[hoknavla]

Yes darn nice!

Thanks for the clarifications! Now we know!