Black Ball Re-Spot Serious Confusion...Help!!!

[dmorley85]

At the end of the game I was playing I needed just the blue & pink to win, I potted the blue & pink which put my opponent 14 points behind at this stage. I then went to pot the black straight after potting the blue & pink but rattled the black in the pocket & then went in off with the white. This then put my opponent just 7 points behind with the foul added on to his points. Then I had a discussion with my opponent that it didn't matter & that I had already won the frame but he thought that the white comes back up into anywhere in the 'D' and that it his his shot with the black hanging over the pocket, he then pots the black over the pocket leaving him equal with my score. So then I toss a coin, I win the toss & decide to put him in first, he plays a bad safety, I miss a fairly hard pot and leave the black on & then he pots the black & says he has won. I'm sure this is not right & that I should've won the frame even with me going in off the black. Can anyone clarity this?

[Ethanat]

Yes pal, you already won the frame when you potted the pink.

[Ethanat]

You were 14 up with black on the table. A foul on the black and you are 7 up. And the frame ends there and then with you winning the frame.

[Tommykiid]

Black Ball Re-Spot Serious Confusion...Help!!!

Yeh you won and after the white went down the black should have been respoted so he shouldn't of been able to win anyway

[jrc750]

Yeh you won and after the white went down the black should have been respoted so he shouldn't of been able to win anyway

Ehh ??? That's not correct

[DeanH]

You were correct, you could claim the frame when you potted the pink with more than 7 points to your favour and only the Black on the table.

At the end of the game I was playing I needed just the blue & pink to win, I potted the blue & pink which put my opponent 14 points behind at this stage.

sec 2.1...the frame is completed by...(b)claim by the striker when; Black is the only object ball remaining on the table, aggregate points are not relevant, and there is a difference of more than seven points between the scores in his favour;

After potting the Pink you were 14 points ahead; you could claim the frame.

I then went to pot the black straight after potting the blue & pink but rattled the black in the pocket & then went in off with the white. This then put my opponent just 7 points behind with the foul added on to his points.

You don't have to claim the frame after potting the Pink, you can have a go at the Black, i.e. to get the break score or just for fun.
As you fouled, your opponent gets the 7 penalty points, but...
sec3.4 End of Frame...(a) When Black is the only object ball remaining on the table, the first score or foul ends the frame excepting only if the following conditions both apply: (i) the scores are then equal;...
Your foul on the Black is the "first" pot or foul, and the score not being equal after the penalty points being applied. You won by 7 points.

Then I had a discussion with my opponent that it didn't matter & that I had already won the frame...

You were correct.
Your score was greater than his after the first pot or foul on the Black.
As you did not claim the frame after the Pink that reason is not used, it is purely down to your score being greater than his after the first pot or foul on the Black

but he thought that the white comes back up into anywhere in the 'D' and that it his shot with the black hanging over the pocket, he then pots the black over the pocket leaving him equal with my score.

Incorrect, after the first pot or foul on the Black you were 7 points ahead, you won.

edit ; see
http://www.thesnookerforum.co.uk/boa...029#post900029

So then I toss a coin, I win the toss & decide to put him in first, he plays a bad safety, I miss a fairly hard pot and leave the black on & then he pots the black & says he has won.

This is what happens with the tie-break and Respot Black.
But again, the frame should not have gotten this far, you had won after the first pot or foul on the Black

I'm sure this is not right & that I should've won the frame even with me going in off the black. Can anyone clarity this?

To clarify, you had won after the first foul on the Black and being points ahead

[Tommykiid]

Yeh you won and after the white went down the black should have been respoted so he shouldn't of been able to win anyway

Ehh ??? That's not correct

You sure jrc ?? That's the way me and a mate do it to avoid fluck winning frames say we're level after the white goes down and foul is called

[DeanH]

You sure jrc ?? That's the way me and a mate do it to avoid fluck winning frames say we're level after the white goes down and foul is called

In the scenario of the OP, the frame was over before they got to the equal score time.

[Tommykiid]

You sure jrc ?? That's the way me and a mate do it to avoid fluck winning frames say we're level after the white goes down and foul is called

In the scenario of the OP, the frame was over before they got to the equal score time.

Ah right now I see what ya mean

[Big Splash!]

OP, next time you play with this guy; don't play the black!

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

I'm uncomfortable with the rules on the final black. If a player who is 14 ahead and CHOOSES to play the black, and fouls, then it should be tough shiit, 7 away, game still live.

Why should first foul on the black be end of game anyway? Seems archaic to me.

[itsnoteasy]

Dean you said if the scores are seven points or fewer, the cue ball comes back out and your oponent gets to pot the black, is that right? I thought you just lost in that case ,say four up foul on the black ,end of frame isn't it?

[DeanH]

Dean you said if the scores are seven points or fewer, the cue ball comes back out and your oponent gets to pot the black, is that right? I thought you just lost in that case ,say four up foul on the black ,end of frame isn't it?

You are right, I confused myself there :blush:
yep had a line of thought and lost it edited.

but he thought that the white comes back up into anywhere in the 'D' and that it his shot with the black hanging over the pocket, he then pots the black over the pocket leaving him equal with my score.

Incorrect, after the first pot or foul on the Black you were 7 points ahead, you won.

Now, IF you had not potted or fouled the Black and the scores were 7 or less point difference, the opponent still has a turn to level the score to force the tie-break.

[DeanH]

I'm uncomfortable with the rules on the final black. If a player who is 14 ahead and CHOOSES to play the black, and fouls, then it should be tough shiit, 7 away, game still live.

Why should first foul on the black be end of game anyway? Seems archaic to me.

It is the end of the frame else you could have a scenario of an endless frame! Some people seem to think snooker is boring enough already :wink:
There has to be a point at which a frame ends, first scoring pot or foul seems logical to me, and the man with the most points on the board wins the frame

Also, if I have 140 break play the Black and foul, does that I lose the frame?
Reminds me of Bar Billiards, know down the Red mushroom and lose your whole score.
IIRC there are other cuepsorts that do the "foul black and lose frame", but they tend to be group-of-balls type games, unlike Snooker which is points-based, the player with the higher score wins.
Of course it has happened where a player plays the Black to win the frame and to stay in the match (Mark Allen) only to go in off and lose the Frame and match (Mark Allen).

[inevermissblue]

Love a good re-spot!