Question re 'Free ball'

[bluenose1940]

We were playing a game recently and a foul resulted in a free ball situation, The opponent nominated the Black as the free ball but then had a lapse of concentration and rolled up tight behind the Black. Obviously a foul was called but, someone else in the room said "7 away". My own thoughts were "4 away"

Who is correct please?

Many thanks.

[DeanH]

The penalty will be the value of the "Ball On".
Red, Yellow, Green, Brown = 4
Blue = 5
Pink = 6
Black = 7

So if the Ball On was Green, he nominates Black as the nominated Free Ball and fouls; whether by not contacting the Black ball with the cue ball, or as you say use the nominated ball as the snookering ball, penalty is 4.

More, if the ball on is Green, Black nominated as the Free Ball and he pots the Pink, penalty is 6,
the usual rule of "...value of the ball on or ball concerned, whichever is higher...".

[markz]

It's a penalty of 4 points as opposed to a foul.

(viii) causing the cue-ball to be snookered behind a free ball, except as
provided for in Section 3 Rule 12(b) (ii);

[markz]

Be great idea for players to get hold of the rule book and check out some of the more obscure rules. It's easy to find on Internet. Download in a pdf file.

[DeanH]

what, like here you mean?
http://www.wpbsa.com/governance/rules-of-snooker/

[markz]

what, like here you mean?
http://www.wpbsa.com/governance/rules-of-snooker/

Post of the year Dean. Great stuff!

[acesinc]

We were playing a game recently and a foul resulted in a free ball situation, The opponent nominated the Black as the free ball but then had a lapse of concentration and rolled up tight behind the Black. Obviously a foul was called but, someone else in the room said "7 away". My own thoughts were "4 away"

Who is correct please?

Many thanks.

In all likelihood, the information in the other replies is correct but your description of the table situation is slightly lacking. It is possible that it may not have been a foul at all....a regularly misunderstood rule (referenced by Markz as "Section 3 Rule 12(b) (ii)") is that, IF Pink and Black are the ONLY balls remaining on the table, it is a LEGAL stroke to nominate Black as a Free Ball and to Snooker behind it. In any other case with other balls on the table, it would be a foul with the potential penalties as Dean described. Since you said your own thoughts were "4 away", it is probably safe to assume that there were more balls on the table than just Pink and Black in your situation.

[DeanH]

Question re 'Free ball'

acesinc - of course your right, with only pink and black on the table you can snooker behind the black as nominated free ball. As you say i also took the scenario of at least brown on the table due to the call for "4 points"

[bluenose1940]

Thank you all for your replies. Apologies for not mentioning in the original post that there was just one red remaining, plus all of the colours of course.

[Londonlad147]

It's a penalty of 4 points as opposed to a foul.

No, it is a foul, the penalty for which is... etc.

Fouls will always end the players turn and the non-offender automatically becomes the striker. When 'penalty' is called (eg the non-striker touching a ball marker whilst the ball is off the table for cleaning, or a player touching a ball during consultation after a miss), the order of play is not affected.

[DeanH]

Question re 'Free ball'

LondonLad - as per scenario of snookering behind nominated free ball as per the OP scenario would be Foul and Miss. Because usually a player would only nominate a ball they can directly play?
What about the case where a nominated ball is played and after some movement around the table it becomes the snookering ball by happenstance?

[markz]

No, it is a foul, the penalty for which is... etc.

Fouls will always end the players turn and the non-offender automatically becomes the striker. When 'penalty' is called (eg the non-striker touching a ball marker whilst the ball is off the table for cleaning, or a player touching a ball during consultation after a miss), the order of play is not affected.

My bad Londonlad, I just noticed it under the heading of penalties and the next heading was fouls but your right still constitutes a foul.

[Londonlad147]

LondonLad - as per scenario of snookering behind nominated free ball as per the OP scenario would be Foul and Miss. Because usually a player would only nominate a ball they can directly play?
What about the case where a nominated ball is played and after some movement around the table it becomes the snookering ball by happenstance?

I think you must have read the OP incorrectly. The striker had a free ball after a foul, but just trickled up to it, snookering his opponent with that nominated ball.

It can't possibly be a miss because he's nominated black (as his free ball) and the first impact of the cue ball was with the nominated ball.

It doesn't matter whether a snooker behind the nominated ball happens by accident or design: it's still a foul.

[DeanH]

I think you must have read the OP incorrectly. The striker had a free ball after a foul, but just trickled up to it, snookering his opponent with that nominated ball..

No I read it correctly and that is the scenario I am discussing, and my question to you was in this scenario would it be called F&M because of the snooker behind nominated free ball. See your response below.

It can't possibly be a miss because he's nominated black (as his free ball) and the first impact of the cue ball was with the nominated ball..

cool, so no Miss, understood.

It doesn't matter whether a snooker behind the nominated ball happens by accident or design: it's still a foul.

I know it is still a Foul, that was not my question; would a Miss be call if it happened by accident was my question, again by your reply above, No a Miss would not be called as the player had hit the nominated ball.
Thanks for the clarification

[vmax4steve]

What if he rolled up to the nominated free ball and left it short, snookering his opponent behind it. Would it then be a foul and a miss.