Will potting angles change with the use of stun, follow or screw?

[throtts]

I have said it before and I will say it again,,, imo,,, pros play with a lot more side than what some people / players think. It can be only a subtle amount but you can clearly see the side has been applied when the CB kicks off from the black cush.

I play with side in and around the black, but, yes, you can achieve getting the CB the same place ( sometimes ) by striking it using upper or lower centre, depending on whats fitting for the desired positional result.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

I think the effect is less with lighter balls.
With snooker balls the only thing I take into account is the cut induced throw for thinner hits, this is where I notice that I get slightly thinner cut angles with top or bottom, anywhere near center seems to push the OB wider, maybe some mistake this for a bad contact when it straightens up on them?

I would say almost all 'bad contacts' are cueing errors. Players have simply not hit the cb where they intended and are imparting side spin on the ball by mistake, so they react in a way that is unexpected. They then call kick, and Dennis Taylor says he can see it jump, when it's done no such thing.

Funny how those who hit the cb cleanly every time get fewer kicks, innit? High time they introduced the measles CB so we can see where everyone is hitting.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

We're not talking about side spin... talking vertical only.

Throw is at its greatest with a stun shot - lesser with top/bottom - so vertical axis does, in fact, alter the path of the object ball.

So, vertical axis = collision induced throw (see nic barrow's machine for basic demonstration).

Horizontal axis = spin induced throw (see dr Dave's videos or experiment for yourself)

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

I think the effect is less with lighter balls.
With snooker balls the only thing I take into account is the cut induced throw for thinner hits, this is where I notice that I get slightly thinner cut angles with top or bottom, anywhere near center seems to push the OB wider, maybe some mistake this for a bad contact when it straightens up on them?

I'm not so sure about this any more. I get a ton of throw playing English pool, which, logically, shouldn't throw much at all, especially with a 1.75" cb. I'm talking spin induced throw here - i cannot process Collison induced throw anymore as its too ingrained into my muscle memory to distinguish.

It is true throw is very minimal in snooker, however. Maybe due to heavy cloth? Whatever the game, clean balls reduces it further.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

You genuinely think they waste their time on the physics of colliding balls? I will guarantee you none of this will help you pot a ball, but I can also guarantee you it will help you miss loads, if you fill your head with it.

I tend to agree with you in principle but there are certain shots where it would be handy to know. Example: i had a plant the other day, with 2 reds near the green pocket. They were about had an inch apart and just off straight. They weren't squeezable (itself a very visual throw effect shot), so i had to manufacturer the potting angle. All well and good so far, but i had to maneuver the cue ball down to the black spot area of the table and avoid traffic, so could only go a precise route.

I did not know what side to put on the ball to do this. Right hand side would have availed position but what would that have done to the plant? Would i need to adjust my aim on the first ball because the spin on the first ball added spin to the second ball, thereby throwing it in a different direction? Frankly , it made my head hurt so i just whacked it and missed. Pros have the time and motivation to set these shots up over and over until they're ingrained, whilst the rest of us don't.

[itsnoteasy]

Pros start when they are kids, knocking in tons by their early teens at the latest, I doubt they have been at home studying Newtons laws of motion or any other physics . They play a shot , miss it thick next time play it thinner, pot it, job done, as the old saying goes, those that can do, those that can't, come on here and look for excuses

[vmax4steve]

I posted this question precisely because of trying to pot half ball blue with white in the same starting position. I could do it repeatedly with plain ball and follow but when i play with stun I always miss it thick.

I would say you're bouncing the cue ball by striking slightly downwards on your stun shots.

Ask yourself if you can explain it in the terms of physics how screw or top spin alters the route of CB after collision with OB. If you can't, do you think it's as pointless as throw?

Spin on the cue ball is a known factor in all cue sports, transfered side to the object ball is extremely small and of no significance to the pot. Some say that running side helps a pot on the cushion due to transfered side, but I say it's because the cue ball hugs the cushion for a fraction longer to make the contact point.

I think the effect is less with lighter balls.
With snooker balls the only thing I take into account is the cut induced throw for thinner hits, this is where I notice that I get slightly thinner cut angles with top or bottom, anywhere near center seems to push the OB wider, maybe some mistake this for a bad contact when it straightens up on them?

I aim thicker and use running side for thin cuts, the side makes the cue ball swerve slightly thus making a thinner contact, and that's all that's happening on such a slight contact.

I would say almost all 'bad contacts' are cueing errors. Players have simply not hit the cb where they intended and are imparting side spin on the ball by mistake, so they react in a way that is unexpected. They then call kick

Absolute rubbish, bad contacts are caused by enhanced friction which causes prolonged contact which can alter the path of one or both balls and also decelerate the cue ball to a large extent. This happens far more today with PR balls than it ever did thirty years ago with SC balls.
When I miss I accept it, when I get a bad contact I know about it because I can hear a difference in the sound the balls make and when I get a kick one or both of the balls jumps on contact.

Throw is at its greatest with a stun shot - lesser with top/bottom - so vertical axis does, in fact, alter the path of the object ball.

Power is the greatest factor when playing a stun run through as you strike the cue ball just above centre quite hard, if you're in any way striking down when doing this you will bounce the cue ball and the contact point on the object ball will very likely be above the horizontal centre, on an angled pot then it will look like the angle of the object ball has changed.

If you're facing a shot with all this throw/collision/squirt bollocks in your head rather than simply fashioning a straight cue action in order to hit what you're looking at then it's no wonder you can't play the game and simply shout about it from behind a keyboard.

[markz]

Pros start when they are kids, knocking in tons by their early teens at the latest, I doubt they have been at home studying Newtons laws of motion or any other physics . They play a shot , miss it thick next time play it thinner, pot it, job done, as the old saying goes, those that can do, those that can't, come on here and look for excuses

Great post INE, keep it simple. Had to give you reputation for this, it's up there for post of the year for me!

[Big Splash!]

Oh god, another ruined thread. Jesus, the OP asks if potting angles change. The answer as Big Shat has pointed out, is a tiny bit. I can't remember if we have to hit them thicker or thinner when applying stun, compared to top/bottom but I don't think about this much at the table tbh. Maybe someone can inform me. This would actually make the thread useful.

The key thing is to use angel ash or bog maple or olde ash from ships; the ball will deviate less on contact with a purer hit :biggrin-new:

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

I would say you're bouncing the cue ball by striking slightly downwards on your stun shots.



Spin on the cue ball is a known factor in all cue sports, transfered side to the object ball is extremely small and of no significance to the pot. Some say that running side helps a pot on the cushion due to transfered side, but I say it's because the cue ball hugs the cushion for a fraction longer to make the contact point.



I aim thicker and use running side for thin cuts, the side makes the cue ball swerve slightly thus making a thinner contact, and that's all that's happening on such a slight contact.



Absolute rubbish, bad contacts are caused by enhanced friction which causes prolonged contact which can alter the path of one or both balls and also decelerate the cue ball to a large extent. This happens far more today with PR balls than it ever did thirty years ago with SC balls.
When I miss I accept it, when I get a bad contact I know about it because I can hear a difference in the sound the balls make and when I get a kick one or both of the balls jumps on contact.



Power is the greatest factor when playing a stun run through as you strike the cue ball just above centre quite hard, if you're in any way striking down when doing this you will bounce the cue ball and the contact point on the object ball will very likely be above the horizontal centre, on an angled pot then it will look like the angle of the object ball has changed.

If you're facing a shot with all this throw/collision/squirt bollocks in your head rather than simply fashioning a straight cue action in order to hit what you're looking at then it's no wonder you can't play the game and simply shout about it from behind a keyboard.

Lol. Are you Dr Dave's retarded twin brother?

You simply don't understand what happens when balls collide. It's unfortunate but whatchgunnado?

And lol at getting called out by a 30 break wonder!

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Great post INE, keep it simple. Had to give you reputation for this, it's up there for post of the year for me!

You get a POTY nomination for saying pros practice? Who knew?

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Oh god, another ruined thread. Jesus, the OP asks if potting angles change. The answer as Big Shat has pointed out, is a tiny bit. I can't remember if we have to hit them thicker or thinner when applying stun, compared to top/bottom but I don't think about this much at the table tbh. Maybe someone can inform me. This would actually make the thread useful.

The key thing is to use angel ash or bog maple or olde ash from ships; the ball will deviate less on contact with a purer hit :biggrin-new:

I've answered it: greatest throw on a stun shot. Now, what about a slow stun with side? Maximum Throw from CIT. Maximum throw from SIT. Yikes, it'll go backwards!

[pottr]

Will potting angles change with the use of stun, follow or screw?

Biggie, we disagree... Save the insults though, bro

[jonny66]

Lol. Are you Dr Dave's retarded twin brother?

You simply don't understand what happens when balls collide. It's unfortunate but whatchgunnado?

And lol at getting called out by a 30 break wonder!

My highest break was the light. What's your highest break?

[Ramon]

The trouble is that many players do not realize that Center ball striking and doing that consistently, is not easy . they can see the center which is the easy part . hitting that point and cueing stright , is the hard part . ( sumthing Itsnoteasy already mentioned in one of his post i believe ? )

Striking the center of CB up and down at the same vertical line as center, IS much more difficult. most of the time this will end up in puting sum unwanted side in CB.
Other problem is, playing this kind of shots requires a total smooth and effortless cue action. Do'nt strike the ball well, and you do push the CB instead of striking it. This could be end up in a bad contact between CB and OB and push the OB off his path. imo.