Allowing for side

[bolty]

This makes sense, but perhaps I need to stress that I don't play the game in real life and the question only applies to playing this simulation.

I can't help but think that you maybe should have said this at the beginning. Even with today's technology simulations are a far-cry from playing real life.

[vmax4steve]

If you hit the shot very softly with right side, the white would tend to swerve to the right, making you miss to the left, so to compensate you would aim a bit thinner. If you were to hit with lots of pace (which you would not do in this situation), then the white would deflect (squirt) to the left before any swerve took effect, causing you to miss to the right, so to compensate you would aim thicker.

You need to take a look at what pro players do when they can't quite get to the potting angle on a red, black or pink when making a break at the top of the table. You're correct that such a shot to swerve the cue ball means you have to hit it at the pace required to give the cue ball time to arc back onto the correct line of aim. On many occasions this means that you can't hit the cue ball hard enough for the object ball to actually reach the pocket, especially when played against the nap, so in the scenario that Billy has posted you must aim thicker at the pace needed to come off the top cushion and back onto the black.

I don't know about the game you both play online, but I asked Billy about his virtual cue and he answered that the game wasn't that anal, but it's important that when playing with side in real life you get to know your own cues playing characteristics regarding throw/deflection or whatever you call it of the cue ball on the strike. You get used to it after a while and the stroke becomes as subconscious as centre ball striking.

Billy

buy a cue and get out and play, if you can that is.

[Smeeagain]

Got it from Ray Reardon's book and it hasn't let me down yet. Saw a passage from Eddie Charlton's book on this site a few years ago and he wrote the opposite, no wonder he couldn't play with side and argued against its use. Never was a world champion was Eddie, wonder why

Billy

does your computer game recognise your virtual cue/tip/ferrule's deflection as well ?

Which Ray Reardon book was it - was it the "Classic Snooker" book?

Smee

[vmax4steve]

yes...............

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Well you have lost me here ! seems you have given both options ??

Sorry, as stated first. Thinner.

[jrc750]

Sorry, as stated first. Thinner.

But I thought the answer was to hit it thicker (as per the physics) because the cue ball will initially go out before coming back on line ?

[Billy]

I'm sorry I asked.

[acesinc]

I'm sorry I asked.

You have answered your own question here. I can't vouch for a video game, but IRL, the answer to your question is "practice it until you understand." Aim thicker or thinner? Again, IRL, the answer may be either one depending on the amount of side applied and the strength at which the stroke is played. To try to explain simply, when using side, there are two effects (some will argue three, but that is not my point here) for which compensations may be required. First (and depending on several variables), the cue ball will initially "squirt" toward the side opposite which the side spin was applied with the cue tip. Second (again, depending on several variables), the cue ball will swerve back toward (and possibly beyond) the original line toward which it was aimed. Mathematically speaking, you asked the forum to solve an equation which has a multitude of variables but you did not (and really probably cannot) provide sufficient data required to solve said equation.

The only thing that I can answer from this thread with certainty is that the "pint cover/fez/thimble-shaped thing" is commonly found in American pool parlours. It is a cone of talc used to absorb moisture from the palms for smooth cue action. Used properly, it can help smooth cue action. Unfortunately, many American pool players tend to slather the powdery stuff all about as if it were Zulu war paint and they are preparing for battle. Filthy and disgusting then, getting all over the cloth, visually unappealing and surely interfering with good contacts. Certainly not required in a video game, so a touch of irony I suppose.

[Billy]

You have answered your own question here. I can't vouch for a video game, but [...]

Well, I'm happy to conclude this thread on that. I understand there are lots of variables, but as I say in another thread this is why I set up the shot so people would have an idea of pace / distance etc. I also understand that every shot played with side will be different and that because of this the effects would be different.

But from all that's been said (and the one explanation that my brain can see and understand the logic of) is that I'd need to aim slightly on the thick side for this particular shot, because the right-hand side on the cueball with throw it out to the left.

What's puzzled me most about all the disagreements and differences of opinions on this, is that I still argue there is a concrete and definite 'correct' answer to my question, and the reason I say this is because we so often here in commentary, when a player is taking on a ball of which he can't quite get to the natural potting angle, that he'll need to play it with a touch of side to 'turn' the object ball over - in other words use the side transference from the cueball, to force the object ball to take a slightly different path.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

But I thought the answer was to hit it thicker (as per the physics) because the cue ball will initially go out before coming back on line ?

The physics is thinner (we discounted deflection, nap et al, didn't we?).

The proposition was, what effect does a spinning CB have on the object ball. A CB hit with right hand side in the scenario described will throw the object ball to left slightly, so a thinner hit required.

Too marginal to make a conscious adjustment, however. Just hit the damn ball already.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

You have answered your own question here. I can't vouch for a video game, but IRL, the answer to your question is "practice it until you understand." Aim thicker or thinner? Again, IRL, the answer may be either one depending on the amount of side applied and the strength at which the stroke is played. To try to explain simply, when using side, there are two effects (some will argue three, but that is not my point here) for which compensations may be required. First (and depending on several variables), the cue ball will initially "squirt" toward the side opposite which the side spin was applied with the cue tip. Second (again, depending on several variables), the cue ball will swerve back toward (and possibly beyond) the original line toward which it was aimed. Mathematically speaking, you asked the forum to solve an equation which has a multitude of variables but you did not (and really probably cannot) provide sufficient data required to solve said equation.

The only thing that I can answer from this thread with certainty is that the "pint cover/fez/thimble-shaped thing" is commonly found in American pool parlours. It is a cone of talc used to absorb moisture from the palms for smooth cue action. Used properly, it can help smooth cue action. Unfortunately, many American pool players tend to slather the powdery stuff all about as if it were Zulu war paint and they are preparing for battle. Filthy and disgusting then, getting all over the cloth, visually unappealing and surely interfering with good contacts. Certainly not required in a video game, so a touch of irony I suppose.

Most definitely 3.

1. Squirt (deflection)
2. Swerve.
3. Throw (cut-induced, or, in this case, spin-induced).

Incidentally, those talc things are useful, even in this country. No more sticky shafts in July & August, so to speak.

[Billy]

Just hit the damn ball already.

I did.


Oh, and I missed, by the way.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Well, I'm happy to conclude this thread on that. I understand there are lots of variables, but as I say in another thread this is why I set up the shot so people would have an idea of pace / distance etc. I also understand that every shot played with side will be different and that because of this the effects would be different.

But from all that's been said (and the one explanation that my brain can see and understand the logic of) is that I'd need to aim slightly on the thick side for this particular shot, because the right-hand side on the cueball with throw it out to the left.

What's puzzled me most about all the disagreements and differences of opinions on this, is that I still argue there is a concrete and definite 'correct' answer to my question, and the reason I say this is because we so often here in commentary, when a player is taking on a ball of which he can't quite get to the natural potting angle, that he'll need to play it with a touch of side to 'turn' the object ball over - in other words use the side transference from the cueball, to force the object ball to take a slightly different path.

Bear in mind, many commentators don't have a clue what they are talking about.

[bolty]

Most definitely 3.

1. Squirt (deflection)
2. Swerve.
3. Throw (cut-induced, or, in this case, spin-induced).

Hold on a hot minute - I thought "throw" and "deflection", or "squirt" was all the same thing, just different words!

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Hold on a hot minute - I thought "throw" and "deflection", or "squirt" was all the same thing, just different words!

I do wonder how many times i need to explain this before it starts to sink in.

The snooker world is in the dark ages when it comes to the physics of what happens when balls collide. What snooker calls'throw', the rest of cue sports calls 'squirt' (or 'deflection'). Fine. What the rest of cue sports calls 'throw', snooker calls...nothing, because most snooker players don't know it exists, even pros and commentators. They use vague euphemisms like 'turn the red over' or using side to 'create the potting angle'. Complete gibberish: what they are attempting to describe is the effect of a spinning cue ball on a stationary object ball; a CB with left spin will throw the OB to the right and vice versa. Lots of variables will alter that amount, however.