Rules Clarification Please

[finabb]

I pot the black to win the frame, the cue ball is still running, I drop my chalk and it hits the black ball which is already in the pocket..........is it a foul.

[DeanH]

Rules Clarification Please

yes
anything contacting any ball at any time is a foul.

Only the cue ball can contact an object ball.
And only the tip can contact the cue ball at the time of strike and only once

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Snooker rules are archaic and stupid. Who cares what happens once the black is sunk.

Quite why refs watch the CB after the winning shot until it stops is beyond me. Has anyone ever seen one speed up and suddenly veer towards a pocket? I haven't. Get on with the damn game already.

[DeanH]

Rules Clarification Please

The OP clearly says that his chalk hits the black into the pocket.
I think his first sentence was meant to say "...need the black to win...".
The rules states that the turn of the player is not finished until several things happen and one is that all balls have come to rest.
In pool rules if you pot the black and the cue ball still rolls round the table and then drops into a pocket, have you not lost the frame? Same as in snooker.
Pool rules are notoriously vague and cause heated discussions often
A referee will call the frame once he is sure that the cue ball will not go into a pocket due to its speed and direction. Just the same in any shot the referee will call the break or penalty if they are sure that all balls are not in danger of falling into a pocket, and a ball could still be rolling.

[jonny66]

I thought he meant it hits the black ball after it has dropped into the pocket too, as he said he has potted the black to win the frame. When does the black ball become "dead" so to speak?

[DeanH]

I thought he meant it hits the black ball after it has dropped into the pocket too, as he said he has potted the black to win the frame. When does the black ball become "dead" so to speak?

Yep read it as that now and no foul as any ball is dead when off the bed of the table and not coming back to the table.
Apologies to OP for not reading his words correctly, it was an early start this morning

[acesinc]

I thought he meant it hits the black ball after it has dropped into the pocket too, as he said he has potted the black to win the frame. When does the black ball become "dead" so to speak?

Confirmed. Yes, the Black ball is dead in the pocket. However, OP left us with a cliffhanger..."the cue ball is still running,...". Has it stopped yet? As long as it has not yet stopped, if it continued on then: 1) dropped in a pocket, 2) jumped the table and come to rest on a rail, the floor or somewhere else, or 3) while still in motion, been interfered with by the striker, by an agent of the striker, or as caused by an action of the striker; then assuming none of those things, frame over, win to the striker.

[DeanH]

Confirmed. Yes, the Black ball is dead in the pocket. However, OP left us with a cliffhanger..."the cue ball is still running,...". Has it stopped yet? As long as it has not yet stopped, if it continued on then: 1) dropped in a pocket, 2) jumped the table and come to rest on a rail, the floor or somewhere else, or 3) while still in motion, been interfered with by the striker, by an agent of the striker, or as caused by an action of the striker; then assuming none of those things, frame over, win to the striker.

...and if they did, the winner would be the person with the most points after the penalty points are applied
On another thread it was implied that a foul on the last black was an automatic loss of the frame to the offender

[itsnoteasy]

...and if they did, the winner would be the person with the most points after the penalty points are applied
On another thread it was implied that a foul on the last black was an automatic loss of the frame to the offender

Well it is, as if it isn't the frames over when the pink is potted because there is more than seven points in it, if there isn't more than seven and you have to play the black, first foul is automatic loss of the frame ( because you have to then be behind in the scores because there was less than seven in it) I hope that makes some sort of sense

[DeanH]

Rules Clarification Please

yep makes sense and is true but the other thread implied (incorrectly) that regardless of score the offender automatically lost the frame

[itsnoteasy]

yep makes sense and is true but the other thread implied (incorrectly) that regardless of score the offender automatically lost the frame

Lol, 140 break in off the black , lost the frame, gutted

[finabb]

thanks
All

[Londonlad147]

The relevant rule to confirm that this is not a foul is 2.10(b):

10. Ball in play
(a) The cue-ball is in play when it is not in-hand.
(b) Object balls are in play from the start of the frame until pocketed or forced off the table.
(c) Colours become in play again when re-spotted.

Once it is in the pocket then it is not in play, so touching it in any way would not be a foul.

[HemiRR]

"Pool rules are notoriously vague and cause heated discussions"

Maybe English Pool Rules, but look at BCA Rule book and there are tons of addendums that describe and or show with diagrams how the rules are to be applied in situations that occur in games. Snooker could be improved with such an addendum. Eg ask several refs and players to interpret 'central full ball .......a full diametre' application for always a miss and 3 misses and you lose frame. Imagine an addendum with diagram showing what that actually meams.

See John Street and Peter Rook Refs Handbook page 85-86 as an example of addendums that the rules of Snooker should have