Can You Change Your Nominated Ball?

[Londonlad147]

You will notice in televised events that the modern practice among referees is to repeat the declaration made by a player loud and clear so that there can be no doubt that the Referee heard what the Player called. This only applies to verbal nominations, not non-verbal methods.

I became a referee in 1990, and was always told referees should repeat a striker's verbal declaration of colour, so it's hardly a modern practice!

[Londonlad147]

Unfortunately, I do have to disagree with Londonlad about a particular point. You said, "Player A was awarded a free ball and he began addressing an obvious yellow. There were no other colours anywhere near it.", however, that in itself is not the full story. Even if there are no other colours near Yellow, the Referee is not necessarily wrong to ask. There may have been one or more available Reds very near the Yellow that could have been a viable Ball On, perhaps a possible "simultaneous hit" type situation. Just because a player is awarded a Free Ball does not mean that he must play at a Free Ball. If the Referee is uncertain whether Player A is playing at Free Ball Yellow or natural ball Red, it is perfectly legitimate for the Referee to require a declaration.

You misquote me or take my comment out of context. I meant that 'please nominate' was the wrong call: it should be 'please declare'.

You're right that if there were reds near the yellow then a request foir a verbal declaration was in order. However, if the reds were close to the yellow there very possibly wouldn't have been a free ball in the first place.

[acesinc]

You misquote me or take my comment out of context. I meant that 'please nominate' was the wrong call: it should be 'please declare'.

You're right that if there were reds near the yellow then a request for a verbal declaration was in order. However, if the reds were close to the yellow there very possibly wouldn't have been a free ball in the first place.

No disrespect meant at all. I admire your knowledge and strive to emulate. I am just saying that, given the information we were given, we really cannot make a determination whether the ref should or should not have asked for a declaration/"nomination". (I also admit that before reading your post, I had not really considered the nuanced difference between "nomination" and "declaration"....I will try to remember that in future.) The fact remains that, right or wrong, if the Referee asks for a verbal nomination, or more properly, a declaration, then the player is certainly obliged to answer, and sarcasm is unacceptable in a formal environment.

I became a referee in 1990, and was always told referees should repeat a striker's verbal declaration of colour, so it's hardly a modern practice!

Ahhh! But do we not still refer to Stephen Hendry as having the most Championships in the "modern era"? I would submit that even though the traditional process of pasteurizing milk was begun as early as the 1800's, it can still be considered a "modern practice". My point was that the story from Cliff Thorburn was from 1984; maybe the refs were in the habit of repeating declarations then, maybe they weren't. I don't know. But even though Cliff went to the extreme of appealing to the Tournament Director, he really had no recourse. Either Cliff did not make his intention clear, or else he wasn't paying attention close enough to notice the Referee did NOT repeat his declaration. It was his fault either way. I honestly don't know if repeating the declaration was standard practice or not back in 1984. That is right about the time that I began watching the game on telly and I seem to recall that in general, the ref would repeat the declaration, but maybe it was not every ref every time. I suspect that incidents such as this is what caused it to become standard practice.

[wemba]

At an amateur tournament Player A was becoming annoyed at both his opponent and the referee.
Player A was awarded a free ball and he began addressing an obvious yellow. There were no other colors anywhere near it.

The referee said "Please nominate". Player A sarcastically replied "Blue" (which was at the other end of the table).
Player A played and potted the yellow. The referee called "Foul". Player A spat the dummy and it was on for young and old.

Who was in the right?

I was Tournament Director at this match.

Player A was a top-class player who had previously won several amateur titles and had made many competition century breaks. He had a strong personality and was well liked by other players.
The referee was a very experienced A-grade referee in his 60's but was a stickler for the rules.

This incident came before me as Tournament Director. I supported the decision of the referee.
A few weeks later there were calls for the resignations of myself and the referee, although nothing came of it.

As others have said, the referee should have confirmed the call by repeating "Blue ball".

[acesinc]

Thanks for the follow up to the story. As Tournament Director, you acted exactly correctly in supporting your Referee. It is not a Rule that the Referee must repeat the declaration, just a good habit to follow so like Cliff Thorburn in my anecdote, Player A really had no recourse and no one but himself to blame.

[Rane]

spoke "Pink" but obvious at Blue; this was discussed extensively at the time on another thread.
Even McGill temporarily came back onto TSF (he was a member but stopped logging in) as he thought someone had called him a cheat (not from what I recall) but I think all said superb sportsmanship by McGill

This is really fine sportsmanship. Huge respect for McGill.

[Shockerz]

spoke "Pink" but obvious at Blue; this was discussed extensively at the time on another thread.
Even McGill temporarily came back onto TSF (he was a member but stopped logging in) as he thought someone had called him a cheat (not from what I recall) but I think all said superb sportsmanship by McGill

A thank you or acknowledgement for the gesture wouldn't have gone a miss?

[bluenose1940]

A thank you or acknowledgement for the gesture wouldn't have gone a miss?

A really first class gesture by McGill but, you took the words right out of my mouth Shockerz, if he can't say thank you in English, then a simple bow would have sufficed:biggrin-new:

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

This is really fine sportsmanship. Huge respect for McGill.

Maybe this explains why jayson shaw didn't make it as a snooker player?

https://youtu.be/7N11aJZPeyY

[Dave Walton]

This is really fine sportsmanship. Huge respect for McGill.

Maybe this explains why jayson shaw didn't make it as a snooker player?

https://youtu.be/7N11aJZPeyY

2nd time in the match Earl called the wrong ball, considering the first time was given as a foul the second should of aswell, Earl clearly calls the 2 ball, doesn't matter how obvious it is when it's a call shot game. Earl is and always has been a cheat. Listen to his excuse, he admits he called the 2 but the ref didn't hear it, he's a tossa

[sharkster63]

Point one, he should not have allowed himself to be annoyed them, it will only ruin his focus and his game


This is your description of the balls on the table and we cannot second guess any other balls' positions.
But as Acesinc said, if there were reds near the Yellow then the referee was correct in asking. If we take your description as read, then I dont think the referee should have requested a declaration.


The referee should have clearly repeated the nomination for all to hear.


Correct action of the referee, Blue as nominated and was not the first ball contacted by the cue ball.


What does this mean? Player A started arguing and a fight between the old and the young ensued?


As you wrote it, the Referee was correct in awarding the penalty for Player A not hitting the nominated ball with the first contact with the cue ball.

BUT... this sounds like a classic case of accumulative human errors and misjudgements (either by deliberate actions/inactions of the referee and Player B towards Player A) and Player A as well (allowing himself to get rattled and the sarcastic nomination). Also possibly the referee was not an experienced referee ("Please nominate" is not the correct statement by a referee) and maybe assumed that a verbal declaration is always required to nominate a Free Ball; it is not.
Let's hope that all those involved have learnt some lessons from this situation.

Dean, I agree, good breakdown, so how many kids do you have.. lol